What is this whole thing about Europe being behind on AI? Do Mistral and DeepL not exist? Yes, I know DeepL is niche, but IMHO it is the best translation model out there.
I've tried using Mistral for various tasks, and it is so far behind the American models that I just never bother using it despite still having lots of Mistral API credits leftover. Even their OCR and TTS products are surpassed by generic US models - I use regular Claude Sonnet for OCR because it is more accurate than Mistral OCR. I could rant about this, I am just so disappointed at how Mistral completely gave up and…
Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
81–90 of 313 posts
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
> We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights That's an unfounded assertion. Of course, politicians will claim this to be the case. I don't see how patronising citizens protects their human rights, though.
In a more practical view though I'm not sure if it'll do anything to stop job replacement from automation as such. Most corporations seem all to eager to make deals with OAI or Anthropic here anyway, and if not that it'll be Chinese ones.
There is a question of "representation", like if a model cannot be trained on the data of one specific country with a specific language, then it does not learn it and the people of that country are now at a disadvantage when trying to leverage the result. Maybe that's a good thing, maybe not, depending on the perspective of how the model is being applied relative to the average person. If it's something that makes their job easier then it's a negative, if it's used by the government to automate scanning all chats then it would be beneficial for it to suck. For widespread languages that doesn't apply of course, so the UK and Spain might as well be exempt.
In general I think it's good for the EU to try and slow down adoption of bleeding edge tech so the US population with its lack of regulations can act as guinea pigs and absorb most of the early damage until we figure out what is the best approach when we get around to adopting it. Even if that means missing out on potential early upsides too. An old example is lots of late adopters going straight to gigabit fiber instead of being stuck on copper DSL.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
Howre you going distill if they block your access e.g. Fable
Chinese are probably laughing reading this.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#84Just post the prompt that generated this slop next time. Then we'd have a chance of seeing some original thoughts, instead of a bunch of web searches filtered through a bucket of mediocrity.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
By then you've already distilled it. Copying is super reliable. It's a historically-proven way to get nearly the same thing at a fraction of the cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage#Second-m...
Howre you going distill if they block your access e.g. Fable
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation? Claiming that GDPR and the EU AI Act "protect human rights" is very, very far-fetched. How does the training of, say, Claude or GPT-X models, hurt human rights?
It might or might not be legal, but who's getting paid when ChatGPT uses knowledge from a phpbb forum from 2008? Is that human person well taken care of in today's society? I use ChatGPT too, but if ChatGPT's coming for all jobs, don't the humans that fed the machine have a right to not be lost and forgotten?
Honest answer, no, not if it was publicly published and available for free, not indefinitely.
From an ethical (not legal) perspective, 18 years seems long enough for something like that to enter the public domain.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#87However, we're (i think officially) in an arms race.
I wouldn't want to bet against anyone in these unprecedented times (with plenty of historical parallels).
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep. I wonder if being at the forefront of AI makes for a better & more free society.
You can only make money if you produce value. If you stop producing value because your old industries decline/collapse and you miss out on new industries, your wealth will trend towards that of a third world country.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#89Absolutely not, even if Europe was given all of the compute in the world. The issues are much much worse. Starting at "data privacy", continuing with the "EU AI Act" and just an overall mindset of regulation and German angst. Many structures in the EU actively prevent and fight against innovation. Oftentimes more subtle but the consequences stay the same. If you ever had to use one of the "sovereign" AI provides such…
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
europe is huxley nightmarish utopia worst parts without any of the bright ones.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe Europe can build models that can compete with American ones. 1. In order to build competitive models, you need to offer competitive salaries and equity. Europe has very old and inadequate corporate law virtually everywhere but in UK. European labs cannot attract talent that can build such competitive models with the proper lack of incentives. 2. In order to build competitive models, you need gargantua…
> 1. In order to build competitive models, you need to offer competitive salaries and equity. FWIW, for the equity part there's a proposal expected to pass for next year: https://www.eu-inc.org/ (but it doesn't address taxes, cross-border employment, or anything significant so it's mostly moot). The main goal is to attract native VCs. AFAIK it's designed by lawyers and old money, with little to no input from tech ent…