Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some of those seem like good things TBH.
Yes, but they are incompatible with being on the forefront of AI.
Yep. I wonder if being at the forefront of AI makes for a better & more free society.
Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
61–70 of 313 posts
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
> What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation? Claiming that GDPR and the EU AI Act "protect human rights" is very, very far-fetched. How does the training of, say, Claude or GPT-X models, hurt human rights?
It might or might not be legal, but who's getting paid when ChatGPT uses knowledge from a phpbb forum from 2008? Is that human person well taken care of in today's society? I use ChatGPT too, but if ChatGPT's coming for all jobs, don't the humans that fed the machine have a right to not be lost and forgotten?
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#63Just post the prompt that generated this slop next time. Then we'd have a chance of seeing some original thoughts, instead of a bunch of web searches filtered through a bucket of mediocrity.
You're cute when you're cranky
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe Europe can build models that can compete with American ones. 1. In order to build competitive models, you need to offer competitive salaries and equity. Europe has very old and inadequate corporate law virtually everywhere but in UK. European labs cannot attract talent that can build such competitive models with the proper lack of incentives. 2. In order to build competitive models, you need gargantua…
> 1. In order to build competitive models, you need to offer competitive salaries and equity. FWIW, for the equity part there's a proposal expected to pass for next year: https://www.eu-inc.org/ (but it doesn't address taxes, cross-border employment, or anything significant so it's mostly moot). The main goal is to attract native VCs. AFAIK it's designed by lawyers and old money, with little to no input from tech ent…
The culture's still all wrong. If you have a startup that failed in SV, that's par for the course. Better luck next time! If you fail in the EU, that's the kiss of death. Your startup failed???
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#65Sure, theoretically, if it could come to an agreement, and meanwhile the cross-border cooperation of even the inter-EU countries is at an abysmal rate, and currently, even during a goddamn land war with Russia, Germany and France can't come to an agreement to build a fighter jet ensemble (together).
The fighter jet program was a jobs program, not dissimilar to how many US government programs are jobs programs by having different parts of it made in different states for no goo reason. Add in some nationalism and it was inevitable it would not work out.
If it's inevitable, then how come the F35's flying around? Sure there's some complaints to be made, but I've seen it work in person.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe Europe can build models that can compete with American ones. 1. In order to build competitive models, you need to offer competitive salaries and equity. Europe has very old and inadequate corporate law virtually everywhere but in UK. European labs cannot attract talent that can build such competitive models with the proper lack of incentives. 2. In order to build competitive models, you need gargantua…
As per your points, Europe really can't compete, particularly when power is considered. However, frontier models that require city-sized data centres might not be all they are cracked up to be. In China they seem to be nonchalantly doing a lot with AI for specific rather than 'ask me anything' tasks. To them, they are quite used to everyday applications that work well within limited domains, no vast data centre neede…
> all we got in the UK was the BBC Micro, way back in the early 1980s, and since then tech has been culturally uncool.
Off the top of my head, ARM is from Cambridge.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't believe Europe can build models that can compete with American ones. 1. In order to build competitive models, you need to offer competitive salaries and equity. Europe has very old and inadequate corporate law virtually everywhere but in UK. European labs cannot attract talent that can build such competitive models with the proper lack of incentives. 2. In order to build competitive models, you need gargantua…
Just as a reminder, Google DeepMind is right here in the UK, and there are hundreds, thousands of top AI researchers that are foundational to everything that the US is doing, as much, if more so than the Chinese contributions. We need compute, yes, but we certainly aren't short of talent if we put our minds to it, and many of them are already here.
Deepmind lab is a US company.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
By then you've already distilled it. Copying is super reliable. It's a historically-proven way to get nearly the same thing at a fraction of the cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage#Second-m...
Howre you going distill if they block your access e.g. Fable
Just bribe someone for access, it's still cheaper than training your own model from scratch. They stole the entire accumulated output of humanity and fed it to their beast, no one should feel any moral or ethical compunction about taking from the AI firms.
Welcome to the age of digital realpolitik.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
By then you've already distilled it. Copying is super reliable. It's a historically-proven way to get nearly the same thing at a fraction of the cost. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-mover_advantage#Second-m...
Howre you going distill if they block your access e.g. Fable
Chinese are probably laughing reading this.
Re: Can Europe train a frontier AI model on the compute it owns?
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights. What does it say about progress that the same laws that protect human rights also stifle innovation?
> We can debate the details and implementation but EU legislature is, at least in spirit, trying to protect human rights That's an unfounded assertion. Of course, politicians will claim this to be the case. I don't see how patronising citizens protects their human rights, though.
You don't see how protecting the commons from being exploited by hypercapitalists for their own profit is protecting the rights of the average person?