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Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

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Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#111

Post by seanmcdirmid »

gmerc wrote: post #107
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, it’s statements like this that make me want to run away like heck from this. Netanyahu is a hack, a war monger, all sorts of bad, but Palestinians continued support for Hamas and seeing large scale cross border kidnapping/murder as a “police issue”, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy. So I bought an EV and that’s the end of it.

The Epstein Class solution to turmoil of the soul - give Elon money instead

Elon isn’t the only person selling EVs. I’m glad I’ve never given him money. We should just wash our hands of the Middle East though, maybe if the western world stops caring, all of the parties will come together and figure out a way forward that doesn’t involve killing each other.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#112

Post by za3faran »

cyberax wrote: post #39
za3faran wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not victim blame here. Would you have called the Indians evil for wanting to have liberty from the british occupiers? What about the many other european colonies in Asia and Africa, were the locals "evil" for wanting to resist and get liberty?

If they did that by slaughtering civilians? Yes. Absolutely.

The same civilians that are killing them day in and day out?

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#114

Post by kibibu »

ameminator wrote: post #75
jmyeet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's actually really simple. You start with these two questions: 1. Is Israel an apartheid state? 2. Is Israel committing a genocide? At this point (IMHO) you need to do some serious mental gymnastics not to answer "yes" to both questions. As soon as you do, it gets real simple. The existence of Hamas doesn't justify either of these things. The people who bring this up are engaging in respectability politics or e…

While I actually have sympathy for people on both sides of the struggle, I also find it hard to answer "yes" to both questions, mostly because of how muddied the definitions of everything are. It's obvious to me, that both the Israeli government and Hamas are both committing serious warcrimes, and that there no good actors here, here are some questions I don't have an answer to. For example, is Palestine its own coun…

Yes, Israel is unequivocally committing genocide in Gaza. Genocide is not just "are they killing everybody", but also "are they driving people from their ancestral homelands"?

Israel is constitutionally an ethnostate. If there is an existing population, there is literally no way to establish an ethnostate without genocide - either through killing or displacement.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#115

Post by kibibu »

gamblor956 wrote: post #92
jmyeet wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's actually really simple. You start with these two questions: 1. Is Israel an apartheid state? 2. Is Israel committing a genocide? At this point (IMHO) you need to do some serious mental gymnastics not to answer "yes" to both questions. As soon as you do, it gets real simple. The existence of Hamas doesn't justify either of these things. The people who bring this up are engaging in respectability politics or e…

[flagged]

> they still refuse to recognize the existence of the nation of Israel. If your counterparty doesn't agree that you have a right to exist, there's no negotiating.

Quick question - does Israel recognize the existence of the state of Palestine?

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#117

Post by throw39647 »

kibibu wrote: post #114
ameminator wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I actually have sympathy for people on both sides of the struggle, I also find it hard to answer "yes" to both questions, mostly because of how muddied the definitions of everything are. It's obvious to me, that both the Israeli government and Hamas are both committing serious warcrimes, and that there no good actors here, here are some questions I don't have an answer to. For example, is Palestine its own coun…

Yes, Israel is unequivocally committing genocide in Gaza. Genocide is not just "are they killing everybody", but also "are they driving people from their ancestral homelands"? Israel is constitutionally an ethnostate. If there is an existing population, there is literally no way to establish an ethnostate without genocide - either through killing or displacement.

[flagged]

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#118

Post by bulbar »

gmerc wrote: post #90
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, you mean there is “no excuse for what Israel is doing” and “Hamas kidnapping and murdering Israelis” was just a distraction? This is why we should just move on to EVs and stop getting involved at all in the Middle East. I see no morally right way of engaging with either side. Both positions seem to end in “let one side genocide the other side.”

That’s not an excuse. Kidnapping is a police problem. Not a genocide problem.

Hamas' mass murdering isn't a "police problem" whatever that's meant to mean and they are quite explicit in their goal of genocide of the Jewish population in the southern levante.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#119

Post by bulbar »

ameminator wrote: post #91
jmyeet wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definitions aren't muddled. Apartheid [1] and genocide [2] are both defined by the UN. Apartheid in particular is also objectively true. Do Israeli Arabs have the same rights as Jewish Israelis? No, objectively [3][4]. As for Palestine being its own country, it clearly isn't. Palestinians live on land claimed by Israel and recognized by pretty much every country in the world. But what if it was? Then Israel is il…

While I appreciate your candor, words matter. I wouldn't call Israel an apartheid state if, in fact, it was two different countries warring to the death over not enough land. I think that situation is closer to reality, with the "victorious" side refusing to completely destroy the loser and the loser refusing to surrender to the "victor". That situation has changed for the worse in recent years, and the world should…

What do people think Hamas would do if Israel was defenseless?

I find the level of denial disturbing. It's not like Hamas has always ruled over Gaza, they stayed in power by force.

Why do people struggle to acknowledge political elites on both sides are evil?

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#120

Post by piva00 »

keypusher wrote: post #50
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this seemingly forever argument, it seems there is some nuance in that Palestine is not Hamas and vice versa. One of the perspectives as I understand it is that Hamas is actually a threat to the existence of Palestine; the militaristic behaviour undermines Palestinian efforts at independence (and this is an avenue for exploitation by those who don't want to see an independent Palestine). It is a similar situation…

Hamas has been the democratically elected government of Palestine since 2006. That was the year after Israel pulled all their military out of Gaza.

Support for Hamas also came from Netanyahu[0], he explicitly gave support to be used as wedge for the Palestinian cause, to perpetuate the conflict giving casus belli to Israeli actions against Palestinians in Gaza.

[0] https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/

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