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A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

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Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#221

Post by intended »

jeffbee wrote: post #13
camgunz wrote: post #4

I really think people are sleeping on the AMOC. The first season there isn't European wine/cheese/olives because of climate change is the first season European farmers probably literally declare war on their governments, to say nothing of the fact that almost no European homes can handle this level of cold. And for some perspective, this is only one of many other huge changes that huge populations will react violentl…

I am interested in your implication that European farmers would have someone other than themselves to blame for this outcome. As a whole they are at least as backwards as American farmers. They are largely deniers of climate change either as a thing altogether or as something attributable to man, or are prone to believing it helps them with longer growing seasons, and their main political activity is protesting any c…

I remember a ted talk about climate change denial, and the speaker humanized the other parties beautifully.

On engaging with deniers, he realized that denial was the only rational choice those people had. Climate change meant that their way of life, their livelihoods, history, homes, family and more, was gone.

Disbelief was a way to have control over the impossible.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#222

Post by sosomoxie »

georgeburdell wrote: post #215
jandrese wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see a whole lot of panic from industrialists over the birth rate drop in the industrialized world. They claim it is an extinction level event for humanity. This is not quite correct. It is an extinction level event for economic models that assume unbounded growth of the consumer base.

It’s disingenuous to imply “industrialists” are the only ones unhappy. Anyone who doesn’t want to die a stranger in their own land is also concerned.

What does "die a stranger in their own land" mean and how does it relate to birthrate?

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#223

Post by solid_fuel »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #88
CalRobert wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The farmers have generally opposed policies meant to address this.

what's your argument? are you actually making one or ... ?

They're pointing out that stupid short-sighted reactionary tendencies on the part of the farmers is directly contributing to the problem that will make their livelihood impossible in the future. It's ironic, if nothing else.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#224

Post by surgical_fire »

georgeburdell wrote: post #215
jandrese wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You see a whole lot of panic from industrialists over the birth rate drop in the industrialized world. They claim it is an extinction level event for humanity. This is not quite correct. It is an extinction level event for economic models that assume unbounded growth of the consumer base.

It’s disingenuous to imply “industrialists” are the only ones unhappy. Anyone who doesn’t want to die a stranger in their own land is also concerned.

If the concern is one that sounds horribly like eugenics, perhaps this hypothetical "people" should indeed go the way of the dodo.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#225

Post by lelandfe »

CalRobert wrote: post #170
ramon156 wrote: post #140

Has anyone seen the news in India (that the Indian media for some reason is not covering) It was 48 C this week in some cities. The power grid was not ready for the amount of AC power needed, and it turned into blackouts. You're sitting in a dark cube that has been cooking for 12 hours, hoping something might happen. A healthy 25 year old would die in 6 hours. Even if you do not want to accept climate change is a thi…

Sooner or later we'll have a wet bulb event and many, many, many people will die. The first chapter of Ministry for the Future is plausible. https://www.indiatoday.in/science/story/north-india-heatwave... for anyone curious, and that was almost a month ago. Pakistan is also very vulnerable.

I've been mentally preparing to read about the world's first unlivable hyper-heatwave for my whole adult life, it feels like.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#226

Post by intended »

skeledrew wrote: post #26

Meh who cares? Let it all burn and flood. Earth gets a fresh start, and hopefully whatever "intelligent" species evolves to be dominant in the next 5-10 million years is a better custodian. Rinse and repeat until that's the case. Heck, who knows if this is actually the 1st or 100th iteration...

From what I recall, there will be no easy energy once our civ dies out. Whichever civilization rises after us, it will face a limit to what heights it can reach.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#227

Post by solid_fuel »

croes wrote: post #18
jeffbee wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am interested in your implication that European farmers would have someone other than themselves to blame for this outcome. As a whole they are at least as backwards as American farmers. They are largely deniers of climate change either as a thing altogether or as something attributable to man, or are prone to believing it helps them with longer growing seasons, and their main political activity is protesting any c…

I guess that’s what parent meant. But just because it’s also their fault doesn’t hinder them to blame the government. Who do you think will MAGA blame for the consequences of climate change?

> Who do you think will MAGA blame for the consequences of climate change?

They'll blame the people measuring the temperature, just like the did with covid when they blamed the testing for the rise in infection. They are, as a whole, very stupid people who really don't have the mental flexibility required to handle nuance.

So they'll do what small-minded people always do - they'll shoot the messenger, then when that doesn't work they'll start blaming everyone who looks, lives, or believes differently from themselves.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#228

Post by netsharc »

journal wrote: post #132
hliyan wrote: post #32

I recently finished rewatching The Three Body Problem in which (spoilers follow) the world panics and goes into overdrive because an alien invasion is due in... 400 years. If the current climate trends continue, vast areas of the Earth may not be suitable for habitation within half that time, and we still can't seem to convince some people this is real. Granted I was a climate change skeptic myself until about 10 yea…

if people have a hard time convincing themselves to brush their teeth, what do you expect from a whole civilization of those type of people?

Even with a virus that could kill within 2 weeks, people lived in denial and selfishness. "Oh it predominantly kills old people? I'm not old, who cares!".

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#229

Post by brewdad »

budsniffer952 wrote: post #122
rwyinuse wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view is outdated. China is building renewable power generation at an extremely high rate, and also exporting cheap solar panels worldwide. China has a higher share of electric vehicles in cities than most of Europe and America does. It appears their emissions are now starting to go down as a result, although the economy keeps growing. India still has a long way to go, but China is doing the right things. Same ca…

> Same can't be said about USA under current administration. The reason half the population won't take climate alarmists seriously are statements like this. Saying the West, generally, or the US, specifically "aren't doing anything" is ridiculous. https://ourworldindata.org/profile/co2/united-states

That chart conveniently ends at the end of the Biden Administration.

Re: A 'cold blob' in the Atlantic could be a sign of AMOC shutdown

#230

Post by surgical_fire »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #88
CalRobert wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The farmers have generally opposed policies meant to address this.

what's your argument? are you actually making one or ... ?

His argument is that farmers are all a bunch of whiny bitches.

It is also a truthful argument.

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