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Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#171

Post by Saline9515 »

pif wrote: post #155
Saline9515 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want their son to do it because immigrants prevent the salaries of those jobs to rise naturally. Mass immigration is capitalism's answer to the Baumol law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the bourgeois left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. My g…

That's as stupid as it is old. Locals would do it for a proper salary. But the same locals do not want to pay the proper salary! Turn the brain on from time to time!

The locals are mostly workers, not capitalists with companies and salaried workers, so it's not "locals" exactly.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#172

Post by Thraway198 »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #58

I don't get why they would want to do this, when runaway depopulation is the biggest issue facing the world. We're at a point where (I think, controversially) we need to sanction (or more) nations that aren't increasing their population annually. This is an existential threat facing the human race.

What???? Why would we have to do that? Runaway depopulation is the biggest issue facing the world? We have billions of people on the planet. GPD not going up is NOT an existential threat.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#173

Post by clcaev »

This is interesting — it put immigration limits directly up for a popular vote.

For those voting to strictly limit citizenship, I wonder if they are supporting: a permanent underclass without full rights? or that basic needs to be more expensive? or that widespread automation will soon meet basic labor needs?

addendum: thank you kgwgk

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#174

Post by Saline9515 »

project2501a wrote: post #149
Saline9515 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want their son to do it because immigrants prevent the salaries of those jobs to rise naturally. Mass immigration is capitalism's answer to the Baumol law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the bourgeois left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. My g…

> The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. apologies, but those of us in the Left agree more with the second part of your sentence than the Left. Are you mixing Leftists and Liberals, perchance?

Yet leftists will always agree to import migrants to undercut locals, in harmony with the capitalist bourgeois class. Besides, I have heard this argument said to me irl a countless times by people with leftist ideas.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#175

Post by JumpCrisscross »

greyhound wrote: post #63
viking123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

German passport == German.

To be pedantic, what is and isn’t German qua German (versus Deutsch) is a bit of a shitshow [1] to the point that one could correctly argue that Germans pee se are more Frankish than Germanic.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#176

Post by dyauspitr »

Saline9515 wrote: post #169
dyauspitr wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re not really accounting for where the money for those “naturally rising wages” come from. A restaurant in the US is making the same (or frankly less) than it used to 10 years ago accounting for inflation. They can’t really afford to pay people more because of the higher consumer index. So the only real option is shutting down. Or in the US for farming. They already run on razor thin margins with a lot of variabi…

It's ok to have less restaurants? I prefer to have less restaurants and staff that isn't treated like slaves?

Slaves my ass. If they had it worse than where they were coming from they wouldn’t be there. It’s also not just less restaurants, it’s wiping out the main streets of most small towns like conglomerates did in the US and that the US has been able to painfully rebuild because of Mexican/immigrant labor in the kitchens and back offices. And that’s not mentioning the immigrants that essentially run the entire US economic engine. Indians alone are responsible for founding 21% of the US’ unicorns/billion dollar companies being 1.5% of the population.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#177

Post by kgwgk »

clcaev wrote: post #173

This is interesting — it put immigration limits directly up for a popular vote. For those voting to strictly limit citizenship, I wonder if they are supporting: a permanent underclass without full rights? or that basic needs to be more expensive? or that widespread automation will soon meet basic labor needs? addendum: thank you kgwgk

The vote was not about limiting citizenship. It was about limiting the number of residents - if anything the effect would have been to _reduce_ that permanent underclass with fewer rights.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#178

Post by Saline9515 »

optimalsolver wrote: post #137
Saline9515 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want their son to do it because immigrants prevent the salaries of those jobs to rise naturally. Mass immigration is capitalism's answer to the Baumol law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the bourgeois left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. My g…

I find it hard to believe the kids of the Swiss elite would be cleaning sewers if not for the low pay.

I grew up at the border. A friend, who wasn't the brightest of the bunch, found a job to flip burgers at McDonalds after highschool. He was paid a salary higher than the French median wage. Not all Swiss are "elite", far from it.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#179

Post by [deleted] »

FireBeyond wrote: post #163
mrtksn wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they want them be the kids from people from their kind but not theirs. It’s a special kind of NIMBY, not necessarily xenophobia. More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the j…

> Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they want them be the kids from people from their kind but not theirs. > It’s a special kind of NIMBY, not necessarily xenophobia. More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing t…

[deleted]

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#180

Post by Saline9515 »

BrenBarn wrote: post #154
Saline9515 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't want their son to do it because immigrants prevent the salaries of those jobs to rise naturally. Mass immigration is capitalism's answer to the Baumol law. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baumol_effect The "locals don't want to do those jobs" comptemptuous rethoric of the bourgeois left has always been false, locals don't want to clean the sewers for the minimal wage, but will do it for a proper salary. My g…

The problem there isn't immigration, it's exploitation of workers. If the person paying that Sri Lankan were to go to jail for his violation of labor law, the situation would be different.

Not really, labor laws in most places are the bare minimum acceptable. In Latvia, they are now hiring Indian truck drivers to compress even more the salaries.

Given that Latvian truck drivers are already the cheapest of the EU, you can figure out that legal is not the problem.

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