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Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

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Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#91

Post by Avicebron »

andrewmutz wrote: post #86
geremiiah wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it seems like EU countries are independently embarking on the Canada-policy of importing a whole bunch of South East Asians and Latin Americans. From Hungary to Ireland, you see the same trend. Part of it is by economic necessity. For example finding nursing staff is very challenging and you have to compete with the US and Australia and other rich countries. But part of it doesn't make much sense. We really don…

When a person relocates to a country where their labor is more productive, a large amount of new economic value is created. Much of that value is captured by the migrant through higher earnings, but a lot also accrues to the people in the community they join. So an engineer joining a country that already has engineers still creates a ton of value in the destination country

And if they displace someone trying to join the engineering workforce say right out of school? What about housing?

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#92

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #65
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we can all take inspiration from the living memories of balkanization Massive internal trade barriers and security so fragmented you’re at the whim of your larger neighbors?

It's a give/take. Even Israel & Spain have fenced borders (the latter on African continent)[i.e. it's not just USA "being racist"]. Every jurisdiction needs to limit immigration more (which EU's dispersed jurisdictions make impossible, by statute ) before any one country can tackle any of their other lacks/disputes . The current EU setup is the inverse of USA's, where the feds technically regulate most immigration is…

> Even Israel & Spain have fenced borders

Balkanisation refers to fences within one’s borders. It’s fragmentation that leads to less wealth, less security and eventually a loss of sovereignty to a powerful neighbor who notices.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#93

Post by whstl »

tpm wrote: post #89
whstl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point was more that Germany can accept lots of immigrants being a large country, and freedom of movement will allow them inside all countries, which can lead to backlash.

And that point is wrong. An immigrant with a legal residence in Germany but no permanent residence permit can't just pack up and go live elsewhere.

Yep, someone points it to GP down below. One needs to apply for immigration again in the next country if they want to travel for more than a vacation.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#94

Post by FabCH »

Arodex wrote: post #37
FabCH wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are non-EU, you will not get a work permit. If you are EU or do get a work permit, you will not get housing. The vote was for a reason…

You can get housing, you have to trade money for time and commute with the (frequent and reliable) public transportation. Meanwhile the parlement and the anti+immigration far-right vote all the time to increase landlord rights and margins. Most of them are landlords, of course...

I mean, Kt. ZH also had the Wohnungsinitiative today, because not even Swiss people can find housing in ZH anymore.

Let’s be realistic and admit that landlords already prioritize someone with history of renting in the country and it’s pretty fair to say that new immigrants will struggle to get housing. Even if you come on a FAANG salary, you will not be able to buy your way in that easily.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#95

Post by JumpCrisscross »

tonfa wrote: post #75
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You do realize German nationals (followed by French) are the top contingent in term of immigration to Swizerland Yes. I’m also conceding to the SVP the observation that a good fraction of said nationals are recently naturalized.

If the SVP says it, it must be true :) What's their sources? I'm sure they could find a couple of anecdotes, doesn't make it significant.

> What's their sources?

Don’t know, don’t care. Mine are conversations in Zürich.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#96

Post by mrtksn »

brightbeige wrote: post #68

Recent, related New Yorker article that goes into the background leading up to the vote https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/06/15/could-switzerl... Despite the prosperity, many Swiss had mixed emotions about the guest workers, who came largely from Southern Europe. As the Swiss novelist Max Frisch observed, “We wanted workers, but we got people.”

Yes, that’s the dilemma of the rich countries. They want their life be taken care by the people they don’t want around and if they have to have them around they want them be the kids from people from their kind but not theirs.

It’s a special kind of NIMBY, not necessarily xenophobia. More like a class thing, they want other rich people’s kids do the shitty jobs so they don’t have to have these poor people doing the jobs and hanging around.

It’s first “I don’t want illegal immigrants”, when the immigration is legal they start doing things like take back control(UK) or sustainability (Swiss).

What they should have done was unprotected heterosexual sex 20 years ago or robots now.

I find it annoying that they screw other stuff just because they don’t want to face the truth about their character.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#97

Post by roysting »

brightbeige wrote: post #68

Recent, related New Yorker article that goes into the background leading up to the vote https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/06/15/could-switzerl... Despite the prosperity, many Swiss had mixed emotions about the guest workers, who came largely from Southern Europe. As the Swiss novelist Max Frisch observed, “We wanted workers, but we got people.”

[flagged]

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#98

Post by Caracas288 »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #58

I don't get why they would want to do this, when runaway depopulation is the biggest issue facing the world. We're at a point where (I think, controversially) we need to sanction (or more) nations that aren't increasing their population annually. This is an existential threat facing the human race.

Most people have a local view of their world through their immediate surroundings, not a panoptic or holistic perspective on the earth or their nation.

The power of collective action via votes isn’t a bayesian system, its just like the sum of many binary vectors.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#99

Post by [deleted] »

Avicebron wrote: post #91
andrewmutz wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a person relocates to a country where their labor is more productive, a large amount of new economic value is created. Much of that value is captured by the migrant through higher earnings, but a lot also accrues to the people in the community they join. So an engineer joining a country that already has engineers still creates a ton of value in the destination country

And if they displace someone trying to join the engineering workforce say right out of school? What about housing?

[deleted]

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#100

Post by ProllyInfamous »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #92
ProllyInfamous wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a give/take. Even Israel & Spain have fenced borders (the latter on African continent)[i.e. it's not just USA "being racist"]. Every jurisdiction needs to limit immigration more (which EU's dispersed jurisdictions make impossible, by statute ) before any one country can tackle any of their other lacks/disputes . The current EU setup is the inverse of USA's, where the feds technically regulate most immigration is…

> Even Israel & Spain have fenced borders Balkanisation refers to fences within one’s borders. It’s fragmentation that leads to less wealth, less security and eventually a loss of sovereignty to a powerful neighbor who notices.

I understand and encourage the "breaking up" aspect. Smaller, more home-rule societies.

Looking at it from the Slovene POV (which ultimately benefited from the dissolution of Yogoslavia, occurring within my/most lifetime), local industries/GDP benefitted greatly.

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