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Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

swissinfo.ch

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Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#41

Post by Arodex »

viking123 wrote: post #21
abc03 wrote: post #16

Maybe a personal analysis: It's a trend that is growing all over Europe. It's the equivalent of overtourism and a problem for the ruling parties (except the SVP that proposed it). Expect it to continue quite soon in Switzerland and other European countries (France, Germany etc.). Of course it doesn't make sense to curb immigration at 10 Mio and many know it. It was also for many a vote against the ruling parties. Alt…

[flagged]

Pure bullshit. Even the Swiss tabloid don't invent "rumours" as ludicrous as your anti-indian lie.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#42

Post by viking123 »

FabCH wrote: post #27
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a trend that is growing all over Europe The current system permitting freedom of movement across the continent while devolving immigration policy entirely to members creates a fundamental tension the EU needs to resolve. Because otherwise, Berlin can basically dictate EU immigration single handedly, which is bound to generate backlash even if they run a perfect programme.

Immigration is not devolved. The whole point of Schengen is the opposite of devolution of immigration. You are confusing immigration with naturalization. Only if Berlin starts handing out German passports do they dictate EU immigration single-handedly.

Some countries print them out very liberally though. Sweden did not require financial self-sufficiency or language ability until like 2 weeks ago. I raised this point back in like 2015 and was promptly called a racist. So these have been handed to people who have nothing to do with the country. Few other countries have done this too but less so. Now all their children etc. will have unfettered access to Switzerland.

Tbh I cannot see anything else but Swiss people at some point voting themselves out of this somehow.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#43

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mrkeen wrote: post #34
viking123 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

While they're at it, they should kick out the French, the Germans, the Italians, and any other immigrants refusing to speak Swiss.

> refusing to speak Swiss

I know this is tongue in cheek. But one of the hallmarks of a nation of immigrants is the enforced tolerance of speaking multiple national languages. Lots of people who only speak on throws off that balance.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#44

Post by anonymous908213 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #17
alephnerd wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is this means in aggregate only around 3-5% of the total population needs to flip in it's opinions for CHexit to happen - which is very doable over two election cycles. A 55% win with 58% turnout despite how this vote was front and center of media discourse is very worrisome as this shows how disengaged the other 42% are.

> in aggregate only around 3-5% of the total population needs to flip in it's opinions for CHexit to happen If the marketing were less xenophobic and the cap were derived from some scientific basis, I think I could be persuaded to vote for it. Particularly since it is not a vote for Chexit, but a democratic vote to confront the EU. (Britain triggered Article 50. Nothing in this referendum directs Berne to do that.)

> a democratic vote to confront the EU

In what way? It is a vote to adopt a policy that is in breach of your international treaty obligations. Unilaterally breaching your obligations is not a grounds for discussion or compromise, it is simply an exit from them, benefits included.

Suppose you're not getting on with your roommate. You could talk to them and try to resolve the problems, or you could default on your lease and receive an eviction notice from the landlord. You are opting for the latter. That is not "confronting" anything, it is a done deal. It is a choice you are allowed to make, to be clear, just as the Brits did, but let's not pretend it's something it isn't.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#45

Post by Lanolderen »

stephbook wrote: post #31
Avicebron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are the job prospects and housing prices? Switzerland is beautiful and I would gladly move there for six or so equivalent figures..

They pay incredibly well, but their work culture (vacation, protections for parents etc) is atrocious. They're on par with Japan/South Korea. You get bonus points for commuting across the German border and utilizing our cheap prices. Don't forget to get the value-added tax refunded!

Meat trafficking over the border is one of my hobbies.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#46

Post by epolanski »

viking123 wrote: post #23
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a trend that is growing all over Europe The current system permitting freedom of movement across the continent while devolving immigration policy entirely to members creates a fundamental tension the EU needs to resolve. Because otherwise, Berlin can basically dictate EU immigration single handedly, which is bound to generate backlash even if they run a perfect programme.

[flagged]

So what?

I despise such openly xenophobic posts.

And Indian immigration tends to be the most educated and wealthy. It's also the wealthiest ethnic group in the US. By far.

In any case, leaving Schengen for Switzerland would be de facto equivalent to Brexit, an economic disaster.

Switzerland thrives by attracting highly qualified professionals for it's service and manufacturing industries and yes, also at the lower end where Swiss nationals aren't lining up to be plumbers, couriers or cleaning staff.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#48

Post by plufz »

abc03 wrote: post #16

Maybe a personal analysis: It's a trend that is growing all over Europe. It's the equivalent of overtourism and a problem for the ruling parties (except the SVP that proposed it). Expect it to continue quite soon in Switzerland and other European countries (France, Germany etc.). Of course it doesn't make sense to curb immigration at 10 Mio and many know it. It was also for many a vote against the ruling parties. Alt…

Can you explain why you think xenophobia is low? My experience as a swed is that xenophobia and trying to avoid immigration often go hand in hand. You do not have a large Swiss right populist semi racist party like most other European countries have?

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#49

Post by brainwad »

alephnerd wrote: post #4

> Swiss citizens have rejected by a 55% majority... This is still very close for comfort, and SVP will re-propose it again and again and again as it and it's predecessors have done for decades.

The Masseneinwanderungsinitiative passed in 2014... and fuck all happened (despite the no campaign heavily leaning on the argument that it would kill the bilaterals, e.g. https://www.emuseum.ch/internal/media/dispatcher/286887/full). When push comes to shove, there is a solid bloc in parliament and the executive for saving the EU bilaterals, even if it means ignoring constitutional initiatives.

Re: Swiss voters reject proposal to cap population at ten million

#50

Post by geremiiah »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #19
abc03 wrote: post #16

Maybe a personal analysis: It's a trend that is growing all over Europe. It's the equivalent of overtourism and a problem for the ruling parties (except the SVP that proposed it). Expect it to continue quite soon in Switzerland and other European countries (France, Germany etc.). Of course it doesn't make sense to curb immigration at 10 Mio and many know it. It was also for many a vote against the ruling parties. Alt…

> It's a trend that is growing all over Europe The current system permitting freedom of movement across the continent while devolving immigration policy entirely to members creates a fundamental tension the EU needs to resolve. Because otherwise, Berlin can basically dictate EU immigration single handedly, which is bound to generate backlash even if they run a perfect programme.

To me it seems like EU countries are independently embarking on the Canada-policy of importing a whole bunch of South East Asians and Latin Americans. From Hungary to Ireland, you see the same trend.

Part of it is by economic necessity. For example finding nursing staff is very challenging and you have to compete with the US and Australia and other rich countries.

But part of it doesn't make much sense. We really don't need to import any kind of engineers from outside of Europe when we have about 2,500 EU universities pumping out graduates each year.

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