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Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

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Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#531

Post by redox99 »

SXX wrote: post #496
dwa3592 wrote: post #270

I wonder if there would be an equivalent of Non proliferation treaty like Nukes? I know it sounds crazy - but if there's even 0.1% chance that some models are so good that they can be used to hack into people's bank accounts - I, as the government, would not want that model to be publicly accessible. I would also request other countries to come to the table and sign this NPT(for AI). Public will still have access to…

> I wonder if there would be an equivalent of Non proliferation treaty like Nukes? It work for nukes because production and scale needed is such that only state actor can do it. Obviously model training is getting expotentially more expensive, but its still nowhere as hard. On top of this is just gonna be very hard to steal a nuke. So country cant just steal a nuke if they cant build one. And even if some country do…

Nukes are much cheaper to build actually. And easier. Most countries that have nukes probably couldn't train a frontier model, and that's considering you can "just buy" GPUs. Imagine if they had to make semiconductors too.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#532

Post by [deleted] »

andsoitis wrote: post #388
softwaredoug wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a terrible way to create AI regulations If they actually cared about this issue we’d have predictable laws and regulatory bodies that let companies actually plan There’s a reason royal fiat doesn’t lead to healthy economies. It’s just confusing and chaotic. It’s not clear why anyone would invest in a new model now. Then the next administration comes in and instantly, by fiat, they decide to lift the ban. The m…

In a parallel universe where we have Biden (or Democratic Party) administration, how different do you think the regulations / approach would be for this fast moving and unpredictable technology?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#533

Post by arcanemachiner »

pksebben wrote: post #481
arcanemachiner wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not American, and I definitely don't support Trump. Care to spin the outrage wheel again and lob another unfounded insult at me? At any rate, feel free to indulge in (plausible) conspiracy theories until further details of the story have emerged.

Real question; what are we supposed to do about that information delay when it directly enables corruption and usury? This is an ongoing issue with historical precedent; the repeal of glass-steagall, MKULTRA and COINTELPRO, Iran-contra, watergate, the list is indefinably long. All of these all surfed in on that very temporal ambiguity, and the fact that we have zero recourse in a plurality of cases - a situation that…

There's nothing wrong with pattern recognition. I'm just cautioning against a knee-jerk reaction based on the current information, which is limited, and will become more clear over the next few days.

I don't think the outcome will be particularly unexpected (I assume that Anthropic will have to kiss the ring), but it's not yet clear what the outcome is. I mostly take issue with uninformed people claiming with ignorant confidence that they KNOW exactly what is happening in this scenario, which they, in all likelihood, do not.

So yeah, we all probably know how this will shake out to some degree, but those who claim they KNOW it's a "shakedown like with Tylenol" are just guessing, a.k.a making shit up. This may be part of the usual playbook, but it will likely have its own twists and turns, or could turn out to be something different altogether.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#534

Post by retsibsi »

rudedogg wrote: post #257
tiahura wrote: post #59

Dario will be shown the door soon.

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, or why the narrative here is all about this being payback for the Department of Whatever-the-fuck thing. Dario has been spouting how his models are too dangerous, thinking he was playing 3D chess and got owned from my perspective. And there's the possiblility of insider plays by the current administration w/ OpenAI or SpaceX. But Dario was running his own propaganda machine and…

> or why the narrative here is all about this being payback

The 'narrative' is focused on the corruption because government corruption is a big deal! Even when it's not truly surprising, and even when you have no sympathy for the (immediate) losers, it should be somewhat shocking, or else what are we even doing here.

You talk about Anthropic giving the government 'enough rope' and getting 'owned', which seems like a tacit acknowledgement that the government does not give a shit about whatever the surface-level justification for this ban is. And you even explicitly acknowledge "the possiblility of insider plays by the current administration w/ OpenAI or SpaceX". What level of cynicism/tribalism are you on, that you don't see this as obviously the main story here?

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#535

Post by vessenes »

Topfi wrote: post #71

I still am struggling to understand why they informed the government about something that is known to be an issue in every LLM. There is no LLM that cannot be jailbroken, so unless this means that we have reached the absolute maximum publicly accessible US made LLMs are allowed to operate at with GPT 5.5, this is not grounded in any sane regulation attempt. Does anyone know what limits Fable 5 has overstepped in the…

I’d invert - given their significant competition for government business, what would be a reason for not doing this?

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#536

Post by chias »

handoflixue wrote: post #454
VectorLock wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I'm ever one to support anything this regime does but I'm kind of okay with them pumping the brakes on this until we really get a handle on what the The USG has limited capabilities on technologies from GPS chips to thermal imaging with "national security" implications for a while and now they're doing it but it seems people don't like how ill defined "Mythos-class" means. Would it be better if it was some %…

"pumping the brakes" would be fine. This is slamming to a full stop on a crowded freeway and causing a three car pile-up. Warning and advanced notice are the difference between regulation and tyranny, and in this case we're just getting tyranny

I have no insider information so this is all appreciation, but:

When it comes to legislative things, there is pretty much always a timeline in which to become compliant. I do wonder if there was opportunity to give warning etc. but Anthropic decided to perform an immediate full stop deliberately causing the metaphorical three-car pileup, because the more painful for the users, the more pressure from the people there will be on the government to undo this.

See also: those painfully annoying cookie banners that are malicious compliance in the most irritating way possible, which GDPR does not require, in order to make people think GDPR is dumb.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#537

Post by AnthonyMouse »

Kina wrote: post #513
_heimdall wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Whether or not you agree with how US laws are drafted, this administration has no logical foundation for anything it does which is a massively different and worse problem by orders of magnitude. This administration runs on whims. This is horrifying and there is real harm in this we have yet to see the full repercussions of.

The lack of a logical foundation isn't the novelty. The whole system has run on whims and backfilled reasoning for a long time. That's the problem.

If it had always been the rule of law until now then we would have an apparatus set up to impose checks and balances and accountability on government officials, but because those things have so atrophied from continuous contempt and neglect, no one knows how to demonstrate that what Trump is doing is wrong without also conceding that half of what the government has been doing for decades is wrong. But they also don't want to stop doing those things and therefore have rather a dilemma.

Of course, that's assuming you actually demand logical consistency. If you don't care about that you can do whatever you want -- which is kind of the trouble.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#538

Post by sofixa »

eranation wrote: post #209
fny wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To give you further perspective, Amazon has a $50B stake in OpenAI and a $5B stake in Anthropic. If things were flipped, I highly doubt Amazon would be running straight to the feds.

Interesting point. Just a small correction, the Anthropic stake is higher. ($13B + another $20B option if they hit certain milestones, which I believe is almost guaranteed) So it's closer to $33B In any case, there is no reason for them to purposefully hurt Anthropic. I would say that this government "takedown" of Mythos is great free advertising. I mean, if you look at this, they said it's too risky to launch, we al…

> I would say that this government "takedown" of Mythos is great free advertising

This only works if you are American and think only about Americans and American companies. Which may or not be the case for Anthropic, and for sure is the case for the US government.

Because from across the pond, this is indeed free marketing... For Mistral and the Chinese open weight models and all the companies that sell them / fine tune and sell them. Who would ever trust their developer productivity / business process automation / support chatbot / whatever on models and providers that can be yanked with no notice?

The morale of the story is, you'd be dumb to rely on any LLM you don't run yourself in your own environnement. Reliability and predictability (including of costs) matter more than quality and features, especially when you can compensate for the quality with fine tuning.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#539

Post by AdamN »

madflo wrote: post #314

putting my old man cap on and I would like to weigh in on the US admin export control on Mythos. It does remind me of the mid-1990s when suddenly asymmetric cryptographic tools such as PGP became a reality and a wide usage possible due to the growing base of internet users. Governments (US, France…) did not understand how to regulate and banned export (and asked users to apply for a licence). I do see a strong parall…

The really scary thing now is that these models are totally controlled by private companies. With encryption the smartest people in the room worked in academia and open source tooling quickly caught up with commercial offerings.

We need a real effort to get these technologies free as in beer and to model ourselves on that movement.

Re: Amazon CEO's talks with U.S. officials triggered crackdown on Anthropic models

#540

Post by shakna »

_heimdall wrote: post #424
aqme28 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a great way to regulate if you’re corrupt. When the rules are opaque and arbitrary, there’s a lot more room for corruption.

[flagged]

In countries other than the US, most regulatory bodies are outside the government for exactly that reason - to take the power away from the political elite, whilst continuing to ensure safety and reason come first.

The new law the US is proposing here, is the exact opposite. A kingly appointed adjudicator to decide things.

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