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Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

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Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#421

Post by LocalH »

Guvante wrote: post #407
wongarsu wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Germany, founding a company creates a public record. There are a number of companies who then send all newly formed companies an invoice that looks like a legitimate invoice for expenses related to creating said company, but on closer inspection actually contain a dense paragraph of text that details that this is not an invoice at all, merely an offer you accept by paying. Quite possibly even a subscription I…

Are they actually legal? Generally those kind of scams setup an illegitimate transaction that would be reversed in a court case. Whether they rise to a criminal matter is complicated but the vast majority of such scams hold up to scrutiny and instead rely on shell games to make retrieving your funds to expensive to be possible.

Legality is a matter of enforcement, not of legislation

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#422

Post by lazide »

fragmede wrote: post #364
rayiner wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your model doesn’t eliminate politics, it just entrenches the particular politics of the kind of people who go to T10 schools then get jobs as division heads at federal agencies.[1] There is no such thing as “following the rules” in an apolitical way. Congress writes very broad laws, and the executive branch exercises a tremendous amount of discretion in enforcing and executing those laws. The founders understood tha…

It's not a fiction. People do their jobs even if they don't like the current or past President. I'm sure you can pull out a long list of people who didn't, but unless you name everybody, it simply isn't a fiction. My claim isn't bureaucrats are always apolitical, it's that they mostly are. Showing that some aren't doesn't show that they mostly are. Take the executive assistant to the American diplomat to, say, Sweden…

‘Because I say so’? Really?

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#423

Post by estearum »

fragmede wrote: post #335
estearum wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe specifically how someone finds enough complaint-free absentee ballots and sick friends to vote at any meaningful scale? Doing this even 10 times seems unbelievably hard.

It seems less hard if you datamine the shit out of everything, exfiltrate the social security database, and feed it into a computer. Get the historical voting records. SELECT address FROM voters that haven't voted in 10 years. Send someone to follow the mailman and steal ballots from that address. Or simply don't mail them out in the first place. They're not likely to notice to complain in the first place. Not that I…

You’re describing an attack that entails both hacking the SSN database, 1 to 50 of the state voter databases, then physically following mailmen around and stealing ballots…

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#424

Post by lazide »

prepend wrote: post #254
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they are doing everything they can to ensure that only the people who are legally allowed to vote are the ones voting Illegal voting is so rare that almost every time folks go looking for it they come up empty handed. Examples of voter suppression, on the other hand, are trivial to fine. (And both parties do it, particularly around primaries.) In my state, we’re trying to enact a citizenship-proof requirement which…

If someone mails in my absentee ballot and I don’t complain, how do you detect that voter fraud? Or if someone knows their friend is sick and votes without an id, how do you detect that? It seems like there are currently many ways to vote illegally that don’t get detected.

You have sign the ballot, and it gets checked.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#425

Post by lovich »

specialist wrote: post #400
vjulian wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us find voting insulting, given very low marginal power in a vote; it’s akin to throwing breadcrumbs to the poor. The structure of governance (the reality, not the mythology taught in schools or pushed forth as propaganda) is not in support of ‘the people”. Right or wrong, this is how many of feel. Voting is silly and futile.

Not voting is much more insulting, by far. Edit: "civic religion" aha. Sorry, I should have guessed you were trolling. Can't wait to see what kind of revolution you cook up.

Civil religions and in particular an American Civil religion, are a real thing[1]. Not sure if that’s what the guy meant however.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_civil_religion

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#426

Post by Dylan16807 »

throwawa1 wrote: post #406
Dylan16807 wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mexican heritage, yes. Mexican citizenship without US citizenship, very much no.

And 50 million never bothered to learn English? Here for decades? I have a bridge to sell you Dylan.

The bridge is that 50 million number that just appeared, yeah. Where did you get that?

Is that the number of people that don't have English as their first language? Almost all of that group does speak English.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#427

Post by estearum »

pandaman wrote: post #389
estearum wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe the specific chain of events required to create a fraudulent vote that is "impossible" to detect? Surely if you can confidently state the system not only is this way, but is purposely designed this way, you should have zero problem describing it exactly step by step. Extra credit if you can describe a method that can produce 10, 100, or 1000 votes.

Feds made a nice write up for you, if you are actually curious: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/california-woman-federally-ch...

Okay so in this scenario, if this woman wanted to actually vote on behalf of these people, all she had to do was pay a bunch of people to register with her address, get 10, 30, 100, or 1000 ballots mailed to her address, then fill out all of those ballots and mail them in and hope no one noticed dozens or hundreds or thousands of ballots coming from an address that would clearly and directly implicate the person who lives at/otherwise controls that address?

And the trade off here is this person gets 10, 30, 100, or 1000 votes in a single county and at the minuscule risk of the rest of her life in prison?

(To be clear, this isn’t what DOJ is alleging, they alleged she was just collecting petition signatures, but I’m extrapolating out your proposed mechanism for actual voting)

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#428

Post by lazide »

angry_octet wrote: post #419
lazide wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, that’s the ‘if people do the right thing’ approach. Many countries use census data to target (or even round up and murder) specific groups of people by religion, ethnicity, etc.

"Many countries"? Do you have any evidence for this statement? I think that actually the US is an outlier.

Here is a case study from Greece in the ‘20’s, but all you need to do is google ‘ethnic cleansing’ and dig in, and you’ll see government data sources (including census data) all played a part.

[https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/11208589]

“The census was conducted in a period of successive wars and rapid territorial expansion. We focus on the handling of the census data for Macedonia, a newly annexed territory that would soon become the site of the first instance of large-scale ethnic cleansing in modern Europe.”

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#429

Post by estearum »

nxobject wrote: post #380
kajman wrote: post #124

I "enumerated" for the last census. Trust in my community was already not high* and I had lots of interesting encounters. I really believed the rather invasive data I was collecting with a friendly face would be used and handled responsibly. I feel for the poor souls that'll sign up to go door to door for 2030 now that the firewalls against weaponizing and monetizing all of our sensitive government data has been torn…

> The comments that this rather expensive endeavour should just be about getting a head count are also amusing to me. The data collected was such an important baseline of common understanding, and this will not be a good thing for its future quality. Even without considering the Census data products alone, Census demographic data underlies virtually all extrapolation from other survey research. Everything from nation…

[flagged]

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#430

Post by dnautics »

angry_octet wrote: post #419
lazide wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, that’s the ‘if people do the right thing’ approach. Many countries use census data to target (or even round up and murder) specific groups of people by religion, ethnicity, etc.

"Many countries"? Do you have any evidence for this statement? I think that actually the US is an outlier.

really? bosnia 1990s, turkey early 1900s, pogroms all over europe in the 19th century, holodomor, china with tibet and uighurs, germany tabulating data on the jews with the help of ibm...
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