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Leaving Mozilla

blog.unitedheroes.net

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Re: Leaving Mozilla

#281

Post by Melatonic »

khuey wrote: post #218
matsemann wrote: post #5

Interesting to read, but ultimately it's very easy to blame "leaders" for everything and I'm not sure it has much merit. It's popular to pile on them and their decisions. But I don't think it's as obvious as people (often here on HN) make it out to be. If Mozilla didn't try out these avenues deemed wrong, if Mozilla spent all money on the browser only, if Mozilla made the best browser ever, would that really make a d…

> if Mozilla spent all money on the browser only, if Mozilla made the best browser ever, would that really make a difference? Would more people use it, would they be a healthier organization now? I worked at Mozilla for a bit over six years and really enjoyed my time there. There were lots of brilliant people attracted by the mission and the work was technically interesting. I left in part because I came to the concl…

This is a good take honestly - Firefox could be perfect and efficient and secure but if the defaults are good enough why would people make the effort to switch ?

What we really need is normalised effort to provide an alternative to the systemic issues you are starting to bring up. Not just the browser market but the entrenchment of big tech in general. An organisation that can deliver on what the idealists individually want in a big, cohesive way.

Personally in our current day an age I think that's what a labor union can provide (in addition to the obvious other resources).

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#282

Post by arxari »

paradox460 wrote: post #242
strix_varius wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100%. Browsers are considered a commodity but I'd happily pay for a browser that: 1. Could do all the stuff chrome does as well as chrome. (Eg, canvas rendering speed etc). So I can actually use web apps. 2. Just doesn't ever have anti privacy code, pro ad code, etc in it. I use brave and a self managed lan which is just an ad hoc half assed attempt to reach the above goals. Because there is no other option.

Sounds like Orion from kagi

We can't see Kagi's code though

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#283

Post by Melatonic »

eklavya wrote: post #71
matsemann wrote: post #5

Interesting to read, but ultimately it's very easy to blame "leaders" for everything and I'm not sure it has much merit. It's popular to pile on them and their decisions. But I don't think it's as obvious as people (often here on HN) make it out to be. If Mozilla didn't try out these avenues deemed wrong, if Mozilla spent all money on the browser only, if Mozilla made the best browser ever, would that really make a d…

I used Firefox and made sure everybody in my circle family and social used it. I had donated 5$ to Mozilla when I was making 360$ per month. I believed in mozilla, I was naive. Soon after I learned the money didn't go to Firefox. They soon after launched a political campaign in my country. I realized this and every other fancy they had, was where my money was going. Stopped using it and stopped caring a long while ba…

What was the campaign?

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#284

Post by jlarocco »

Latty wrote: post #82
red_admiral wrote: post #6

Respect. This is what Firefox could have been. In the real world, in the same line as the article suggests, there was a brief time when the "puts you back in control" browser needed you to change the following about:config settings to disable the force-pushed ai: browser.ml.enable, browser.ml.chat.enabled, browser.ml.chat.sidebar, browser.ml.chat.menu, browser.ml.chat.page, extensions.ml.enabled, browser.ml.linkPrevi…

Look, I absolutely agree it sucks they didn't deliver the opt-out/in interface day one, it was obvious people would want it, and yes, it's not the first time they've blundered. At the same time, they did listen to the feedback and deliver. It now has a genuinely good interface for it where you don't have to opt out of everything, but can opt-in where you want it. It's not just a big off button, it's a general out-out…

I think Firefox gets hated on more than the others because they advertise putting the user in control but in practice they seem to undermine it at every opportunity.

A browser that puts users in control should make features like AI and advertising opt-in because there is a sizeable group of people who are concerned about those things. It's meaningless if they only put users in control who agree 100% with Mozilla's ways of thinking.

After so many times of blundering in ways that are favorable to their corporate sponsors, it's hard to believe they're not doing it on purpose.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#285

Post by Telaneo »

deanc wrote: post #108

I really wish Mozilla would focus relentlessly on a privacy-first, performant browser across major platforms. Nothing else. I don’t want extensions (attack vector), vpns, fancy bookmarking services that are deprecated later on etc. I want to browse the web safely and privately and preserve battery life - nothing more.

Firefox is little more than a uBlock Origin runtime for me, so extensions are pretty critical for me.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#286

Post by Melatonic »

TalkingCodeMonk wrote: post #50
klez wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the OP says, the point is not that they needed unpaid work, if that's what you mean. The point is that volunteers shaped what Firefox, MDN, Thunderbird, Mozilla itself were.

This is why I refuse to donate to Mozilla, despite only paying for open source products, believing that 100% open source should be mandatory in every democractic government, Firefox and Thunderbird being my daily drivers for many years, and donating several hundred dollars every year on FLOSS projects. Many of Mozillas product decisions prove that the Mozilla corporation is not aligned with the interests of FLOSS. I…

Can you explain what crime and exploitation you feel Mozilla is committing that should make them "criminally prosecutable" ?

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#287

Post by zzo38computer »

kgwxd wrote: post #240
Latty wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I absolutely agree it sucks they didn't deliver the opt-out/in interface day one, it was obvious people would want it, and yes, it's not the first time they've blundered. At the same time, they did listen to the feedback and deliver. It now has a genuinely good interface for it where you don't have to opt out of everything, but can opt-in where you want it. It's not just a big off button, it's a general out-out…

The only correct move would be remove the option, remove all AI code, and move it into extensions. If the extension security policies, and other restrictions, don't allow all the things they want to put in, then GOOD, they don't go in.

I also think should be moved into extensions. However, extension security policies and other restrictions do not have to necessarily be so restrictive; there can be permissions but for extensions that you can install and uninstall by yourself it can be useful to be able to load native code .so files (since you might want to do things other than what the browser does by itself). This permission would not be made available to the official extensions, so that you can write it in C and then must compile them by yourself if you want them with native codes

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#288

Post by oriolid »

47282847 wrote: post #244
FireBeyond wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the word "Relay" in Internet Relay Chat was meant to refer to relaying between servers. Larger networks even had some hub servers that didn't allow users to connect at all, and existed to be server interchanges. IRCv3 missed the boat by years. By 2016, when the working group was formed, IRC was already well past its glory years. Even then, it took til the 2020s before any major network fully adopted it. Becaus…

> IRCv3 missed the boat by years Because people invested/wasted their energy into building proprietary silos instead.

Like Matrix (the one at https://matrix.org)?

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#289

Post by 47282847 »

oriolid wrote: post #288
47282847 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IRCv3 missed the boat by years Because people invested/wasted their energy into building proprietary silos instead.

Like Matrix (the one at https://matrix.org )?

The Working Group on IRCv3 started in 2011. Matrix in 2015.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#290

Post by krautburglar »

altairprime wrote: post #258
krautburglar wrote: post #58

Literal who has left the company that provides Google's antitrust insurance policy. That Mozilla still manages to swing "non-profit" status as they do this is outrageous. I would like to see Mozilla's entire board leave Mozilla... in a PERP WALK.

Mozilla Corporation, owner and operator of the Firefox brand and recipient of Google’s payments, is not a non-profit. U.S. law permits non-profits to have for-profit subsidiaries if one accepts severe limitations, such as the corporation’s profits being largely severed from the non-profit’s use. Severance isn’t just a science fiction show, it’s a compulsory auditable requirement.

Corporations get up to so many rotten things, most of which are entirely legal, but shouldn't be. Mozilla Corporation thanks you for the free ball-washing & PR work. If you reach out to their non-profit parent, you may even be able to deduct this on your taxes.
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