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Leaving Mozilla

blog.unitedheroes.net

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Re: Leaving Mozilla

#231

Post by FireBeyond »

luke5441 wrote: post #116
47282847 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like “the UX of HTTP is horrible”? Still doesn’t make any sense. Discord could well run on top of IRC the protocol and be open to federation without any change of UX.

IRC doesn't have offline messages and standardized user accounts. Just looked it up and there is IRCv3 to fix this, but idk what the state of that is.

"... not great".

IRCv3 was already late to the party and when I saw that the Working Group's mailing list was composed of lots of debates on formats for server daemon configuration files, it was clear many couldn't see the forest for the trees.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#232

Post by tokai »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #193
matsemann wrote: post #5

Interesting to read, but ultimately it's very easy to blame "leaders" for everything and I'm not sure it has much merit. It's popular to pile on them and their decisions. But I don't think it's as obvious as people (often here on HN) make it out to be. If Mozilla didn't try out these avenues deemed wrong, if Mozilla spent all money on the browser only, if Mozilla made the best browser ever, would that really make a d…

> it's very easy to blame "leaders" for everything and I'm not sure it has much merit. Leaders are accountable for their decisions, their statements, their strategies, and their care for the organisation(s) that they lead .

Its weird how quickly people are to excuse the class literally paid to be responsible.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#233

Post by em-bee »

pmontra wrote: post #121
tjoff wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like you couldn't create an IRC-client with better UI than discord. Not as many features, but whatever strength discord has it is not UI. Email really could have been great, but html and bad actors have made it so much worse than it needs to be.

Email is OK. The point is that most conversations moved to other media (mainly chats) and so 90% of my mail is notifications, 9% is newsletters, 1% are real messages. They used to be 99%.

try deltachat. it's essentially a chat client with all the features you would expect but using SMTP as the protocol.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#234

Post by stryan »

collabs wrote: post #150
nicoburns wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Matrix. It all seems a bit overengineered, but it's open and has good clients, and all the modern features you'd expect.

I'm sorry but I lost interest in matrix in 2017 ish when I tried to use my existing matrix log in when trying to sign into the Mozilla matrix and I simply couldn't. At the end I ended up creating a new account on Mozilla side just so I could use it for a few days. I've never thought of matrix as a mature technology ever since. even mastodon figured out federation.

That's not how federation works? You wouldn't log into Mozilla's matrix server with another Matrix server's login, you would just join the :mozilla.org rooms with your normal Matrix account. That's the whole point of federation.

It sounds like you were trying to login to Mozilla's Element web client and it was only set up to authenticate against the Mozilla homeserver but A) that's a client setting unrelated to federation or really the protocol in general and B) not what you were supposed to be doing to begin with.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#235

Post by axus »

nntwozz wrote: post #69
klez wrote: post #7

Some 10 years ago I was a Mozilla volunteer. I mainly worked on MDN, to the point of becoming a so-called "topic driver" for the glossary. Some of the work I did landed in the citations of a couple of papers about web technology. They flew me a whole week to Vancouver for an event where employees and volunteers worked together in the same room and they even made me (and the other volunteers ) attend a sort-of-corpora…

Dat feeling when reading "IRC (an open protocol)" on HN—the parenthesis being necessary to explain IRC. Makes me think in 10 years time the web will all be discord-like data silos behind infernal subscriptions and/or dark patterns with ads. What a wonderful thing we've created.

Sounds like some decision-maker couldn't figure out how to connect to the IRC channel. That's not the right type of management for Mozilla.

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#236

Post by throw-the-towel »

sethops1 wrote: post #167
mschuster91 wrote: post #103

> Another delusion comes about because of self-reinforcement. Say you're going to release some, controversial feature. Maybe it's browser based DRM, maybe it's AI, maybe it's Push Notifications. Listening to your users can be a bit challenging[2], because while some might tell you, most probably won't. They'll just leave. That means that your source of information will be the people that stick around, so you wind up…

I've been bitching about it for like a decade but I still won't use Firefox until it supports window based profiles. Safari has them now, ffs.

Why not use container tabs instead?

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#237

Post by Surac »

just today i came back to firefox from brave. firefox at one point in time was not able to work with the onshape web cad system and i needed a chrome based browser but was not ready to leave adblockers behind. brave war the only one suporting manifest 2 addons. but today i tried onshape in firefox and now it works. glad to be back

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#238

Post by matsemann »

heresie-dabord wrote: post #193
matsemann wrote: post #5

Interesting to read, but ultimately it's very easy to blame "leaders" for everything and I'm not sure it has much merit. It's popular to pile on them and their decisions. But I don't think it's as obvious as people (often here on HN) make it out to be. If Mozilla didn't try out these avenues deemed wrong, if Mozilla spent all money on the browser only, if Mozilla made the best browser ever, would that really make a d…

> it's very easy to blame "leaders" for everything and I'm not sure it has much merit. Leaders are accountable for their decisions, their statements, their strategies, and their care for the organisation(s) that they lead .

That wasn't my point, really. But that they chastise Mozilla leadership without offering any other alternative direction than "keeping doing as in 2009".

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#239

Post by PuercoPop »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #130
nntwozz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dat feeling when reading "IRC (an open protocol)" on HN—the parenthesis being necessary to explain IRC. Makes me think in 10 years time the web will all be discord-like data silos behind infernal subscriptions and/or dark patterns with ads. What a wonderful thing we've created.

Is there a widely-used open modern chat network? Specifically, I'm fine with the feature set of IRC, but I want durable messages and a mobile client. Speaking as someone who hasn't run their own bouncer in 10+ years.

> but I want durable messages and a mobile client.

And IRCv3 has chat history to provide that. But https://snikket.org/ (XMPP) is more likely aligned with what you are looking for

Re: Leaving Mozilla

#240

Post by kgwxd »

Latty wrote: post #82
red_admiral wrote: post #6

Respect. This is what Firefox could have been. In the real world, in the same line as the article suggests, there was a brief time when the "puts you back in control" browser needed you to change the following about:config settings to disable the force-pushed ai: browser.ml.enable, browser.ml.chat.enabled, browser.ml.chat.sidebar, browser.ml.chat.menu, browser.ml.chat.page, extensions.ml.enabled, browser.ml.linkPrevi…

Look, I absolutely agree it sucks they didn't deliver the opt-out/in interface day one, it was obvious people would want it, and yes, it's not the first time they've blundered. At the same time, they did listen to the feedback and deliver. It now has a genuinely good interface for it where you don't have to opt out of everything, but can opt-in where you want it. It's not just a big off button, it's a general out-out…

The only correct move would be remove the option, remove all AI code, and move it into extensions. If the extension security policies, and other restrictions, don't allow all the things they want to put in, then GOOD, they don't go in.
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