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Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

desfontain.es

311–320 of 662 posts

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#311
post #53

Can anyone share how other countries handle this?

Sure, in Europe we don't because we already have databases of all citizens, also recording attributes like race, skin color, religious affiliation or political leaning in a database is highly illegal, both for the government and for private use.

> recording attributes like race, skin color,

The only reason we ever started doing this was to track ex-slaves and their descendants, and after-1965 every other possible grouping of people started begging for a category that it could use to get government grants in some way.

The irony is that now, when censuses somehow desperately need to figure out if you're Armenian or not, they don't count the descendants of slaves at all, preferring to lump them in with every dark-skinned person of partial African descent, but sometimes not the Spanish speakers(?!).

The US Supreme Court made a good decision (on admissions, not on the need for the approval of redistricting maps in places that have continuously attacked slave and Jim Crow descended voters.) The government needs to get out of the race and religious science business. Elected and appointed officials are openly claiming jihadi eschatology as the reason that they're supporting Israel, and openly explaining how the culturally varied mix of people who happened to live in land that Zionists wanted, or the Chinese, are inhuman races that are a threat because of their inhuman behavior and their inhuman values. We've woven church and race deeply into the government again.

The idea that preferential admissions to elite schools was going to somehow offset slavery was laughable anyway. It was just a grievance engine that gave people on top an excuse to feel downtrodden during the one of the most and the first vulnerable times in their lives - when they find out they're too stupid or boring to get into the college they want. I've always been partial to the libertarian solution to the problem of US slavery - Murray Rothbard and others said that according to the Libertarian homesteading principle, slaves should have been awarded the land and the factories that they worked. That it was an injustice that would lead to (what was in his view) catastrophe, such as how the freeing of Russian serfs in 1861 without any of the land still controlled by their ex-masters led to the Russian Revolution 50 years later.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every time I've explained this I've gotten instantly downvoted without a single reply making an argument against it, Ok I'll break it down for you. > If in 2016 of 2024 even 20% of the dems would've stayed home or voted third party Parties cater to their bases, and putting yourself out there as an unreliable voting bloc is exactly how you get your demands ignored. > The whole idea of "third-party voting is a comple…

> Parties cater to their bases, and putting yourself out there as an unreliable voting bloc is exactly how you get your demands ignored. I wish more people understood this. Instead, there's this mistaken notion that you give away leverage by supplying votes. It's literally the opposite. Your coalition will have more influence and leverage within a party by supplying votes, not withholding them.

Really the hack to get outsized influence in a party is to show up in the primaries.

NYC has a DSA mayor because people used that one weird trick.

The other important one is showing up in local elections.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voting and getting everyone you know to vote

Many of us find voting insulting, given very low marginal power in a vote; it’s akin to throwing breadcrumbs to the poor. The structure of governance (the reality, not the mythology taught in schools or pushed forth as propaganda) is not in support of ‘the people”. Right or wrong, this is how many of feel. Voting is silly and futile.

Civics is a kind of religion, and it is difficult for people caught up in it to approach discussion from a logical and external perspective. This kind of civics is dangerous to society.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#314
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a significant movement in conservative circles that "the census should literally only be a count". this could be a wedge to prevent detailed demographic data collection by the government

Those "conservative circles" don't exist anymore - if they ever. MAGA ate them, chew them and spit them.

The problem is not that MAGA "ate them, chew them and spit them", but that the traditional neoliberal shit GOP circles "ate, chew and spit" the MAGA movement and what people voted Trump for. Instead Trump was fully assimilated to the Borg/Swamp, with a big fuck you to the MAGA promises (except the show he put on about immigration).

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point might be going over my head… why does it make no sense?

why it makes sense? please try to answer. what action of the gov would change based on that data? then, make it so your answer is more valid than if they asked what you usually have for breakfast. i guarantee you more gov actions can be positively impacted by the breakfast question than the religion one. the ONLY use for religious data is to get it for free for campaigns.

If there is less than 50% religious people maybe the "in god we trust" could be removed from the dollar?

Also are you sure there isnt less than 50% religious people already?

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#316
post #13

The replies here arguing we should publish it all are wild in the worst kind of first-order thinking way. It’s a census: it just asks questions. If you start publishing and weaponizing the data against people with various attributes, they’ll just lie or not answer. And then you are left with worse than nothing: bad data people try to act on.

[flagged]

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#317
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Think about what meta knows about everyone, or Google. Not everybody uses it and not everybody who uses it uses it naively enough to give access to useful identity info. What's shocking is how people keep finding excuses. "what about Meta" is not one

Forget meta. Your cell service providor also gives data to three letter agencies. Your bank does too. Your utility companies. Every thing or concept you might engage with will probably hand over data to three letter agencies. You post on HN after all, I'm sure they do it here too.

my bank and cell provider and utility company don't ask for my race

anyway let's stop whatabouting:) we are talking about census

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there will be dissatisfaction from users of the data. Anyone that wants to use census data will prefer less privacy in the data. And anytime privacy is enforced the data becomes less useful. It would be certainly very convenient for both advertisers and gerrymandering political consultants to have detailed data on every citizen. As the article says anytime you want to enforce privacy, the data becomes somew…

Are you sure about that? You are saying that differentially private census data couldn't be used for gerrymeandering and advertisement while non differentially private data could? Hard to believe, I'm not an advertisement or gerrymeandering expert but I would assume people running ads or cutting up districts are mostly interested in aggregate statistics i.e. they won't care about single households? And I would assume…

> You are saying that differentially private census data couldn't be used for gerrymeandering and advertisement while non differentially private data could?

They definitely didn't say that. You said that. And you said that because you would prefer to argue impossibility vs. possibility rather than more useful vs. less useful. You prefer this because for the first irrelevant question which no one asked (it is possible to use current census data in bad ways), you are obviously right; and for the second, relevant question (would allowing this data make it easier and far more useful for gerrymandering and advertisement), you are obviously wrong.

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#319
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a significant movement in conservative circles that "the census should literally only be a count". this could be a wedge to prevent detailed demographic data collection by the government

Wouldnt that hurt the conservative cause though?

Count of people - brown people removed = success

Re: Noise infusion banned from statistical products published by Census Bureau

#320
post #59
post #13

The replies here arguing we should publish it all are wild in the worst kind of first-order thinking way. It’s a census: it just asks questions. If you start publishing and weaponizing the data against people with various attributes, they’ll just lie or not answer. And then you are left with worse than nothing: bad data people try to act on.

The US Government is the entity that weaponizes the data. The most obvious example is the Census Bureau compiling lists of people of Japanese descent to imprison during WWII. That's just the most obvious one that I know of without looking up more. The real push for this now is to form lists of people to disenfranchise.

[flagged]
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