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The computer science degree isn’t dead

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Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#161

Post by anonymars »

varjag wrote: post #157
Ylpertnodi wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go back to the UK every so often for work. Being in EU countries is really weird, because they don't have 'class systems' (like the brits). Deference is given to your professional title, doctor, lawyer etc.

Every nation that was a heart of an empire still has lingering class issues. I've been told by Swedes a non-commoner last name can absolutely open some doors. Though nothing comes close to the UK, which is closer to Japan in this regard than the continental Europe.

> Every nation that was a heart of an empire still has lingering class issues

What nation on Earth doesn't have class issues?

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#162

Post by saturn8601 »

bluGill wrote: post #94
keiferski wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philosophy major here that went from working in a bakery, to sales at a large apparel printing company, to writing and marketing at startups. I do wonder if CS grads are too often narrowly focused on “tech” companies and not on companies that need software.

Software tends to be complex enough that you need a lot of people and thus a tech company. It rarely makes sense for a company to make their own software that they only use to internally. Many non tech companies makes their own software but it is shipped to customers as part of the product

>It rarely makes sense for a company to make their own software that they only use to internally.

From my understanding China operates this way. They supposedly have such an oversupply of software engineers that every company just build all the software they need internally. Now with AI they have supposedly been super aggressive in adopting it that its probably even more of the case that everyone is building most of what they need internally.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#163

Post by saturn8601 »

keiferski wrote: post #114
bluGill wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Software tends to be complex enough that you need a lot of people and thus a tech company. It rarely makes sense for a company to make their own software that they only use to internally. Many non tech companies makes their own software but it is shipped to customers as part of the product

Eh it depends. I’ve worked at / with a lot of more traditional non-tech companies and you’d be amazed at how a lot of the software looks like Excel circa 1995. I guess they could be using third party software but it seems like often they are just using an ancient thing they built themselves.

Sounds like you are picturing WinForms in your mind (Was so awesome to create forms and ship really customized usable software quickly). Does business software really need to be super pretty?

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#164

Post by YZF »

taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

I got a job first and my degree later.

At work nobody knows what degree you've got. I mean some people insist to be called Dr. X if they have a Ph.D. (and in some cultures that's more common). You can have a B.Sc. in biology, or an M.Sc. in EE, or a law degree or no degree and nobody knows. As a manager in a large tech company I didn't even know that for the people I managed. I would usually find out people's background through random talk but it's not information I had access to. I was surprised to find one of the rising stars didn't finish his degree and wanted to take some time off to finish it.

Where it does matter is in the hiring process and especially for juniors and larger companies.

> I've never seen a time when tech is less about engineering than right now.

Sad but my experience as well.

As someone who started being more self-educated (I did learn a lot of theory myself) and only later finished my degree (started, dropped out to do some real work, came back much later) I do think a good CS program teaches a lot of important things. Most importantly the ability to learn and understand research in this area. Not all the specific things you're going to learn are going to be applicable all the time, some will some of the time, and not having that background at all is limiting. You can learn this without going through the academic system but it's much harder and most people don't and stay stuck in some sense.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#165

Post by mejutoco »

dgellow wrote: post #95
lifestyleguru wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DACH societies are extremely class based, in fact most of European royal families come from there. They take it as a point of honor to be rude or at least gruff in daily interactions, it's not about you. Their cynicism is indeed a poison, no need for it as the real life will bring enough unexpected challenges.

European royal families have pretty much nothing to do with the modern DACH region, and compared to the UK royal families in continental Europe have very little influence. But the rest is pretty much true unfortunately, though I wouldn't call the behavior rude because it's not seen as rudeness by people who do it. It's more that being optimistic, feeling surprised by things, expressing strong emotions is all seen as…

Battenberg -> mountbatten

I think that is what op meant.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#166

Post by saturn8601 »

kubb wrote: post #62
LtWorf wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it normal to study mathematics in a computer science bachelor program in USA? That country never ceases to astonish me lol.

They run degree mill programs because their universities are for profit.

Most universities are not for profit at least the ones that are considered any good.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#167

Post by mixmastamyk »

le-mark wrote: post #2

> The Federal Reserve Bank of New York recently placed unemployment for recent CS graduates in the United States at 6.1 percent, with computer engineering graduates at 7.5 percent. Compared to philosophy majors at 3.2 percent and art history graduates at 3.0 percent, those figures look alarming. Alarming doesn’t begin to describe it. This is an existential crises for our industry. The situation for entry level has be…

Decades of experience here, and have not worked in over two years. Tell me again how I have nothing to worry about.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#168

Post by rjbwork »

rienbdj wrote: post #92
rippeltippel wrote: post #30

I agree with the "what" but not with the "how". The article essentially says that, for a junior to be hired, they should demonstrate the same experience as a senior: deploy real system that solve real problems, know how systems behave in production, etc. That is precisely the skillset that someone builds up in a professional environment, i.e. after being hired. In my view and experience (20+ years in the field) the v…

Tragedy of the commons. What stops a company taking on the strong junior engineers you just invested time and resources into?

Not a lot, so you should make sure you give them generous raises and other incentives to stay.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#169

Post by yieldcrv »

anal_reactor wrote: post #137
yieldcrv wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to this extreme but most people around me don’t know what I do for money or explore in unallocated time I’m fashionable and have a nice place but nothing says “software engineer that earns more than most doctors” People that wake up next to me think I earn about 1/3rd to 1/5th of what I earn, I don’t correct them But at the same time I do want just a little bit of the hypergamy. Unfortunately, broadcasting to tha…

I'm gay so I have easy access to sex and TBH I don't really have much sex, almost nothing at all, because sex with most people just isn't pleasant. I cannot derive pleasure from it if there's no connection, and "wow I love your car" isn't connection.

I enjoy the challenge and the sex. I think the speed limits in the hetero space to be with attractive women keep it interesting for nearly a lifetime. Things devalue when abundant, but it takes a lot for it to become abundant.

But even then, it's not disinteresting instantly, I'm around a lot of people with similar libidos and interest in sustained variety, who have achieved that, and brought similar people together. So I could really only say thank you for your personal account, it's a very individual journey not reflective of everyone else's experience with abundance.

I haven't really done much with material things, I live in and buy what's comfortable for me. But I know there is a large crowd that finds shiny material things attractive and its always an option when I want to optimize for that.

Re: The computer science degree isn’t dead

#170

Post by YZF »

jongjong wrote: post #61
taurath wrote: post #19

If one is thinking about not getting a degree and trying to go straight to work, as someone who did so (albiet out of poverty rather than choice) but didn't end up like Zuck, please heed my warning: Social capital matters more than just about anyone who has a degree can understand and tell you or mentor you about, because the majority of them have always had it, and they tend not even to interact with people without…

Yes 100%. I was born upper middle class. I have a BIT from a global top 50 University. I understood this after working in cryptocurrency sector in Germany. After I left Australia and moved to Europe, I realized after some time that 'the matrix' had demoted me into a lower social class. I had to work harder for less money and had access to fewer opportunities. Then I joined the crypto sector and the people there seeme…

It all used to be smoking and there are still places in the world where trains and busses have seats facing each other. Having sat in those seats in the past I can tell you that people can still perfectly well not talk to each other ;)

There are cultures (e.g. go to Israel) where random people still talk to each other.

I'm not sure I would call what you observed in Europe privilege. I think you were just an outsider/immigrant from a different culture. Different places have different cultures and it takes a long time (if ever) to acquire them. You'll be treated differently if you don't have the right social cues e.g.

In places like the US or Canada this tends to be a lesser effect because it's a big melting point.

I know plenty of really rich people (like billionaire or approaching) that aren't that different than most of us (also rich). You don't magically move to some other "circle" just by having money. It's true there are certain "classes"/cliques in different cultures but it's not as simple as has money vs. hasn't.

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