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Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

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Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#121

Post by 8note »

alephnerd wrote: post #13
fidotron wrote: post #8

While deeply unlikely to change anything it really is important as much noise is made about this as possible. On top of this will be C-34 which is just full no privacy anymore territory https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/06/everything-all-at-once-b... The gov do all this and then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses leaving all the value being captured…

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

the biggest reason is that canadians speak English

we could much more easily get a Quebecois tech industry than canadian

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#122

Post by EmbarrassedHelp »

EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #89
EmbarrassedHelp wrote: post #39

There will be a SECU Committee meeting on C-22 later today, where the committee will be performing a clause by clause review of Bill C-22, and voting on amendments. It may be the final meeting. You can watch it live by clicking the "Watch on ParlVu" button on the meeting notice page: https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/SECU/meetin... Direct link to the upcoming live ParlVu video: https://parlvu.parl.gc.c…

The SECU Committee meeting is now live, and is set to go until 11:59 p.m. ET. The livestream of the meeting is available here: https://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/Harmony/en/PowerBrowser/PowerBrows...

Well, the meeting ended early today after a member who supports the bill basically rage quit. Everyone else was trying not to laugh.

It seems possible that C-22 could be delayed in committee long enough to stop it from being passed before the summer recess deadline of June 18.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#123

Post by alephnerd »

8note wrote: post #121
alephnerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

the biggest reason is that canadians speak English we could much more easily get a Quebecois tech industry than canadian

Smh what's with these dumb takes. Literally the only thing blocking a self-sustaining Canadian tech scene is the lack of capital.

Has anyone who comments these hot takes ever talked with Canadian founders or tried to raise capital in Canada?!? Do y'all even know what a term sheet is?

It doesn't matter if you live in Quebec, Alberta, or Nunavut - why the hell would I as a fund manager at Ontario Teachers, ScotiaBank, or a family office allocate $100M in Canadian equities over American or Asian equities? You could potentially make a case for commodities like ONG and metals, but much of the trading for that is cleared in Chicago and London and the past decade of major capital projects in the space were all blocked - be it pipeline projects by BC and Quebec or renewables projects by Alberta and Saskatchewan. But even with commodities that basically leaves Canada turning into a North American version of Australia or Russia.

This can only be solved with significant government support and intervention, which is how Israel, China, India, South Korea, and the UAE developed sustained domestic VC markets. The Carney admin has started to make the right moves.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#124

Post by to11mtm »

rangestransform wrote: post #62
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canadian tech is nonexistent because every Canadian pension fund, family office, and bank prefers to invest in American equities over Canadian equities. Off-topic but I suspect it's also that oil and gas and real estate are the "easy" money in Canada and that's where investment goes. Canadian investors are risk adverse because they can be. That and there's a colonial-descended cultural bias towards credentials and…

I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns. Investors in Canada kept passing the same pieces of land between each other for no benefit to society. My pipe dream is that Canada grows the balls to annhilate property values

> I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns.

There was also the Z/VLIRP to smooth things along.

On the other hand, poetry rhymes, and one could similarly draw a line from now-increasing interest rates to the tech layoffs, forced RTO (to help improve on some spreadsheet the property value they want to leverage) and general corporate-IT sector malaise.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#125

Post by cmrdporcupine »

to11mtm wrote: post #124
rangestransform wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns. Investors in Canada kept passing the same pieces of land between each other for no benefit to society. My pipe dream is that Canada grows the balls to annhilate property values

> I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns. There was also the Z/VLIRP to smooth things along. On the other hand, poetry rhymes, and one could similarly draw a line from now-increasing interest rates to the tech layoffs, forced RTO (t…

I think the point is that when zero % interest rates came along in 2008, Canadian investors piled their money into real estate -- because we hadn't suffered the same crash as the US and it was still a reasonable investment that was humming along at at least 6-7% a year (and often way way higher) in gains.

But in the US that was a "shit investment overnight" and it took many years to recover. So if you were looking for a place to park money, you maybe put it into more productive sectors, or tech, etc.

(Another factor is that for a few years around 2011, 2012 the Canadian dollar somehow hit parity with the USD. As a result many Canadians piled in hardcore into the US market and saw big gains from that when USD/CAD went back to its normal ratio)

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#126

Post by soupbowl »

llm_nerd wrote: post #60
slopinthebag wrote: post #37

The country has just slipped into a recession (only one in g20 btw), food bank usage is at record highs, it's young adults are ranked 71st in the world in happiness (boomers in the top 10 tho), housing is out of reach for many, youth unemployment is at ~15%, outside investments are non-existent, government debt is at record levels, haven't won the Stanley cup in decades, in a trade war with the USA, nobody is startin…

Foreign investments just hit an 18 year high. Employment numbers just went positive (at about 5x the per capita rate of the US). The country is recovering nicely from being addicted to mass immigration/housing. Export markets are rapidly diversifying, and Canada has made a number of new strategic partnerships. Two straight months of growing trade surpluses. All while our largest trading partner explicitly and openly…

This is basically just shilling. Average Canadians cannot point to many things that have improved or gotten cheaper in how many years? You are acting like we are a day away from being a debt free hyper economy that everyone is knocking on the door to get involved with.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#127

Post by slopinthebag »

llm_nerd wrote: post #120
slopinthebag wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm skeptical of central bankers trying to sugarcoat the fact that we are in a "technical" recession. If you look at per-capita GDP it's lower than it was four years ago and if you talk to regular Canadians you'll come away feeling like we've been in a recession for years. I would say per-capita is a better metric because it better reflects what individuals are experiencing, whereas Canada's overall GDP has been bols…

Why did you casually jump to per capita GDP? Per capita GDP is finally going up after a long regression, and one of the reasons Canada slipped to a very small recession is that hundreds of thousands of migrants are leaving the country, their visas expired. When you remove a lot of people that were consuming housing and food and cell plans and delivery doordash, GDP drops. You have two conflicting complaints simultane…

Per-capita GDP rose mainly because of what you said, declining immigration growth.

The issue is that our economy has been in decline for years, increasing the population dramatically masked that at, least in nominal GDP, and as population growth declines it reveals the weaknesses that were previously obscured. Simply reducing population growth is not enough to fix the last 10 years. Immigration was and is never the problem with our economy, a lack of real growth is.

So no, I wasn't happy when our GDP rose because of population growth, and I'm not happy today either because pulling a few levers on the immigration machine to change the numbers slightly doesn't fix anything. And it doesn't appear like the government is doing anything to fix it, instead focusing on the stuff we're talking about in this thread.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#128

Post by [deleted] »

soupbowl wrote: post #126
llm_nerd wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Foreign investments just hit an 18 year high. Employment numbers just went positive (at about 5x the per capita rate of the US). The country is recovering nicely from being addicted to mass immigration/housing. Export markets are rapidly diversifying, and Canada has made a number of new strategic partnerships. Two straight months of growing trade surpluses. All while our largest trading partner explicitly and openly…

This is basically just shilling. Average Canadians cannot point to many things that have improved or gotten cheaper in how many years? You are acting like we are a day away from being a debt free hyper economy that everyone is knocking on the door to get involved with.

[deleted]

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#129

Post by myth_drannon »

alephnerd wrote: post #13
fidotron wrote: post #8

While deeply unlikely to change anything it really is important as much noise is made about this as possible. On top of this will be C-34 which is just full no privacy anymore territory https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/06/everything-all-at-once-b... The gov do all this and then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses leaving all the value being captured…

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

Canadian tech was thriving 10-20 years ago, there is a reason it was called Silicon Valley North. RIM, Nortel, Celestica, QNX... I can't explain what exactly happened. A simple explanation would be Liberals prioritized real estate growth, unlimited immigration to artificially boost GDP but I suspect the problem is more complex.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#130

Post by llm_nerd »

slopinthebag wrote: post #127
llm_nerd wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you casually jump to per capita GDP? Per capita GDP is finally going up after a long regression, and one of the reasons Canada slipped to a very small recession is that hundreds of thousands of migrants are leaving the country, their visas expired. When you remove a lot of people that were consuming housing and food and cell plans and delivery doordash, GDP drops. You have two conflicting complaints simultane…

Per-capita GDP rose mainly because of what you said, declining immigration growth. The issue is that our economy has been in decline for years, increasing the population dramatically masked that at, least in nominal GDP, and as population growth declines it reveals the weaknesses that were previously obscured. Simply reducing population growth is not enough to fix the last 10 years. Immigration was and is never the p…

>The issue is that our economy has been in decline for years

Yup. We had a housing and immigration based economy.

>Simply reducing population growth is not enough to fix the last 10 years.

Ah, so damned if they do, damned if they don't. Yes, getting unchecked immigration under control was absolutely a problem that needed to be fixed (they still aren't there, and the TFW and "student" pipelines are a major remaining problem), and it was a contributor to our economy getting untethered.

>And it doesn't appear like the government is doing anything to fix it, instead focusing on the stuff we're talking about in this thread.

C-22 is a tiny, minor, law and justice bill that normal wouldn't get an iota of attention (it legitimately is a tiny, extremely simple bill). You think the government is "focusing" on this? Then you have zero idea how anything works. Pretending like the massive arms of government focused on this is necessary for your rhetoric though.

Further, saying they aren't doing anything else...yes, you are 100% a partisan. Nothing will please you. Everything is wrong. Everything is dire. But I'm sure only Saviour Party will fix things.

And it's funny that there are dipshits in here pretending like I'm the partisan. I hate this sort of dipshit politics on either side. When Harper was PM and the far left was apocalyptic about everything he did (doing the same incredibly stupid "everything is going to hell!" routine), it was just as profoundly stupid. I hate when both sides do this nonsense.

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