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Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

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Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#61

Post by stackghost »

soperj wrote: post #53
stackghost wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the tyranny of the majority. Ontario and Quebec together are like 65% of Canadians. I'm in BC and have made my peace with that. I would imagine people in PEI feel a similar way. Probably people living in Hope or Quesnel also feel similar about being steamrolled by Metro Vancouver and Victoria.

The eastern provinces and Quebec are actually over represented. That means there's even less of a chance for the west.

Saskatchewan and Manitoba are also over-represented.

BC, Alberta, and Ontario are under-represented. Ontario, for example, is about 39% of the population of the provinces, but only 36% or so of the seats.

The allocation is an imperfect formula, to be sure. I doubt it makes much of a difference in practice, except as propaganda fuel for foreign influence operations driving Alberta separatism. The degree to which most provinces are under- or over-represented is less than 1%.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#62

Post by rangestransform »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21
alephnerd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

> Canadian tech is nonexistent because every Canadian pension fund, family office, and bank prefers to invest in American equities over Canadian equities. Off-topic but I suspect it's also that oil and gas and real estate are the "easy" money in Canada and that's where investment goes. Canadian investors are risk adverse because they can be. That and there's a colonial-descended cultural bias towards credentials and…

I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns. Investors in Canada kept passing the same pieces of land between each other for no benefit to society. My pipe dream is that Canada grows the balls to annhilate property values

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#63

Post by stackghost »

badc0ffee wrote: post #52
stackghost wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the tyranny of the majority. Ontario and Quebec together are like 65% of Canadians. I'm in BC and have made my peace with that. I would imagine people in PEI feel a similar way. Probably people living in Hope or Quesnel also feel similar about being steamrolled by Metro Vancouver and Victoria.

PEI gets 4 seats in the House of Commons.

Right, and even with those extra two seats from the Senatorial clause, they only get 4. Ontario the juggernaut gets 122.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#64

Post by EmbarrassedHelp »

llm_nerd wrote: post #48
zuzululu wrote: post #25

what is bill c 22 in a nutshell for non canadians like me ? is this like the patriot act in usa ?

It's online and easy to read, and is a modernizing of laws around online systems. It is a deeply imperfect bill -- personally I think it is basically DOA and will not receive assent -- but a lot of the reaction to it are classic partisan hysterics (you can already see a bunch of those people throughout this discussion). https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/45-1/bill/C-22/first-r... The parts that are garnering a lot…

> It's online and easy to read

That's not true. Most people are not legal experts with extensive expertise in technology, knowledge of how Canadian courts will interpret the legislation, and knowledge of how governments around the world are trying to attack encryption (ex: they do their best to hide and not to explicitly say it in the legislation).

> And let's be real: 99% of the industry already logs everything.

That's your opinion. That's not a real scientific claim, and yet you are using it to justify an unprecedented attack on privacy rights.

Suspicionless metadata retention has been illegal in the European Union since 2014, and it violates the Charter. There is no world in which it is acceptable.

An RCMP witness speaking about the bill during a recent committee meeting literally said the legislation will help them "solve the problem of encryption": https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/05/rcmp-confirms-bill-c-22-...

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#65

Post by EmbarrassedHelp »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #34
dismalaf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Liberals have been elected 4 times in a row. They don't even hide the fact they're hostile to the needs and cares of Canadian citizens since we're the idiots who keep electing them. CBC pushes some propaganda about how this'll protect the kids, some brain-dead liberals will keep repeating it, Canada will just continue its path to irrelevancy...

You know the conservatives are supporting this bill as well... right? And when Harper was in power they were trying to push something similar? And that the petition linked here is an NDP petition? Partisan grandstanding won't fix the issue. A mobilized public will.

Both the conservatives and the NDP have been fighting against Bill C-22.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#66

Post by EmbarrassedHelp »

alephnerd wrote: post #13
fidotron wrote: post #8

While deeply unlikely to change anything it really is important as much noise is made about this as possible. On top of this will be C-34 which is just full no privacy anymore territory https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/06/everything-all-at-once-b... The gov do all this and then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses leaving all the value being captured…

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

> Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise).

That's actually not true for most of those countries. None of those countries other than maybe China have laws requiring encryption backdoors.

Suspicionless bulk metadata retention is also illegal in the EU, and no such law existing in many of those other democracies you listed.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#67

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

rangestransform wrote: post #62
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Canadian tech is nonexistent because every Canadian pension fund, family office, and bank prefers to invest in American equities over Canadian equities. Off-topic but I suspect it's also that oil and gas and real estate are the "easy" money in Canada and that's where investment goes. Canadian investors are risk adverse because they can be. That and there's a colonial-descended cultural bias towards credentials and…

I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns. Investors in Canada kept passing the same pieces of land between each other for no benefit to society. My pipe dream is that Canada grows the balls to annhilate property values

They kept selling residential property to foreign money launderers. In the US that activity is confined to major metros where it impacts the more distributed population density less significantly.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#68

Post by tw85 »

alephnerd wrote: post #13
fidotron wrote: post #8

While deeply unlikely to change anything it really is important as much noise is made about this as possible. On top of this will be C-34 which is just full no privacy anymore territory https://www.michaelgeist.ca/2026/06/everything-all-at-once-b... The gov do all this and then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses leaving all the value being captured…

> then will act surprised as Canada's tech sector finds it even harder to create any consumer facing businesses... That's not why an indigenous Canadian tech industry is non-existent. Heck, China, Israel, India, South Korea, and Taiwan all have larger tech industries than Canada and have much stricter internet speech requirements (and in Israel and Taiwan's case are much smaller than Canada population wise). Canadian…

And why, pray tell, is that the case? Because the Liberal government has created a terrible environment for Canadian businesses over the last 11 years, ballooning the size of the public service and the amount of regulations and bureaucratic oversight, as well as trying to pick winners by handing out subsidies to all the wrong companies in service of their ideological agenda. They would rather companies fail than succeed without their "help". That, and they've done everything in their power to keep the housing bubble juiced instead of allowing an RE correction. But hey, running the country into the ground while trying to blame everything on the orange man gets you elected, so I don't expect any course correction.

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#69

Post by cmrdporcupine »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #67
rangestransform wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a (admittedly unevidenced) hypothesis that the US took off from other economies after ‘08 because real estate became a spectacularly shit investment overnight and investors had to invest in productive things for returns. Investors in Canada kept passing the same pieces of land between each other for no benefit to society. My pipe dream is that Canada grows the balls to annhilate property values

They kept selling residential property to foreign money launderers. In the US that activity is confined to major metros where it impacts the more distributed population density less significantly.

Don't worry, we have our own domestic money launderers as well. And whenever the gov't tries to close loopholes they riot. (Also half the gov't MPs are landlords, so ...)

Re: Petition to Withdraw Canada's Bill C-22

#70

Post by Computer0 »

giantg2 wrote: post #43
alephnerd wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure foreign players do play a role, yet it still has the 4th largest VC dealflow [0] in the world ($9.3B) at 2x the size of Canada's entire market which highlights a significantly larger market. And unlike Canadian startups, most Indian startups IPO domestically [1] thus building a self-sustaining capital market [0] - https://dealroom.co/guides/global [1] - https://internationalbanker.com/finance/india-is-undergoing…

I didn't realize the VC market was that strong there. A lot of the stuff I read on here had previously pointed to it being a tough startup market.

Tough as in a lot of competition. A lot of market segments dominated by Chinese manufactures have a relentless stream of Indian Startups nipping at their heels, is what I understand.
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