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B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

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Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#81

Post by marcosdumay »

boboblong wrote: post #61
bad_user wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital storage is far more unreliable ... when we'll have content that survived in digital form for thousands of years (or heck, I would be happy with 20 years), then we'll be able to compare apples to apples. Also, even though I have a child at home, I never had a book that "broke" - as there's nothing that some glue can't fix. The only real danger for the preservation of books in physical form is fire. > by centra…

"The far bigger danger is that the eBook reader is a device running on integrated circuits and battery, which will break in only a couple of years and those B&N servers will not be online forever (I would be quite surprised if they are still online in 10 years), it's only a question of when that will happen." But you knew this when you bought the e-book. If companies were selling DRM-protected e-books but labeling th…

What? Do B&N tel you that you can't backup their ebooks on their marketing material?

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#82

Post by hullo »

thinkling wrote: post #42
dansingerman wrote: post #40

Having had to get my hands dirty in the murky world of Adobe DRM, I am pretty sure this is actually an implementation problem with how Barnes & Noble have implemented it. As crazy as it may seem, I believe in the B&N case the DRM licence is based on the credit card details. Hence no more credit card, no more licence. One day I may do a longer post how horrifyingly awful Adobe DRM is technically, (never mind the ethic…

I don't doubt that Adobe DRM may be awfl, but when the customer isn't allowed to download the book, how does the DRM implementation enter into it? The DRM (as embedded in the ebook files) isn't in play here.

All this theoretical user needs to do is update their credit card details in their account. Any credit card will do, whether it's the original with a new date or a different one.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#83

Post by lnanek2 »

Honestly, amazon has been pulling bullshit like this on me as well. I'm always flashing new ROMs and swapping phones for my job, many books on the amazon Kindle app simply refuse to download any more saying I've exceeded the license. ;/ They really need to put in the description that the book will be useless to me...

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#84

Post by hullo »

epo wrote: post #54

This has nothing to do with DRM, it is a crappily designed customer authentication system. If B&N had any sense they would offer customers the ability to redownload their purchases at any time after say, 120 days, for an additional 25c.

People can redownload their purchases at any time for 0 cents, whether it's 120 days or 3 years later. They just need to have a current credit card on file. Question the wisdom of that if you will, but there's absolutely no recharging people or disabling of access.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#85

Post by winthrowe »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #78
Tyr42 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PayPal backs out of a transaction and locks your account after you try and pay steam with it. Steam say, hey, you didn't pay us, we're locking your account and you lose all your games that you've bought so far. True story, happened to my brother. Took hours on the phone to sort out. Still never using paypal for anything like that again.

Can you explain in more detail? How could you owe steam money if you didn't finish the transaction? Did paypal somehow promise steam the money long enough to complete the transaction and then pull takesie-backsies?

That is typically exactly what is claimed by the victims, that paypal first completes, and then is later rescinded/charged back for whatever reason; steam then removes access to the account. I've heard a wide enough variety of paypal horror stories in general that I presume it's not all a case of user error.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#86

Post by thinkling »

dansingerman wrote: post #45
thinkling wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't doubt that Adobe DRM may be awfl, but when the customer isn't allowed to download the book, how does the DRM implementation enter into it? The DRM (as embedded in the ebook files) isn't in play here.

The default Adobe DRM implementation requires that you need an Adobe ID (i.e. an account with Adobe) to access the book. (DRM licences are against Adobe accounts) The bigger players who use Adobe DRM (Like B&N) of course don't want this, so there are alternative schemes where you can use a token to represent the user that is not the Adobe ID. In the B&N case, I believe that token is based on the credit card details.…

Ah, the credit card number is part of the encryption/decryption key [1]. Since it seems unlikely that the Nook decrypts the book once and stores a decrypted copy, the Nook also must store the credit card number--or hopefully a hashed version of it. Apparently so [2].

[1] "I cannot unlock my books" at http://www.barnesandnoble.com/u/nook-books-frequently-asked-...

[2] http://i-u2665-cabbages.blogspot.fr/2009/12/circumventing-ba...

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#87

Post by monochromatic »

> strip the drm off of the ones you purchase so you can you the book you BUY on all your devices

This attitude right here is part of the misunderstanding, and part of the problem. You haven't BOUGHT the ebook. You've paid for a license, and in all likelihood, that license prevents stripping the DRM.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#88

Post by pfortuny »

yk wrote: post #25

The problem with ebooks (as with software and other files) is, that they are simpy not physical goods. From the viewpoint of a consumer, a nice advantage of files is the essentially zero costs of replacement, so that I can resonably expect a vendor to replace a copy lost due to an accident. (Unlike with a physical book, where replacement costs actual money.) On the other hand, I have the means of production for an eb…

OK, BUT bear in mind that UNTIL such a complicated new kind of relationship between two persons is set up, whenever some interaction looks like a purchase-sale agreement, IT IS SO. Even more if you read "BUY" this ebook everywhere.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#89

Post by talmand »

spohlenz wrote: post #28

This issue has nothing to do with DRM, and is simply the result of a system that requires an account to be in good standing (i.e. has a valid credit card) before any downloads can be made. Obviously this is an issue that should be fixed, but there isn't even any evidence that any attempts were made to contact B&N - just someone encountering an error message in B&N's software. I'm as against DRM as anyone else here bu…

I was thinking this too. By the way the article reads it has nothing to do with the DRM on the ebook itself. How can the DRM on the ebook be the problem if one cannot download the ebook in the first place?

This is a customer service issue, not a DRM issue.

Re: B&N Decides That Purchased Ebooks Are Only Yours Until Your Credit Card Expires

#90

Post by R_Edward »

wildranter wrote: post #26
R_Edward wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occam would probably disagree with you. Absent evidence of malevolent intent, I'd chalk this up to a mediocre designer who didn't ask enough questions of himself or his subject matter experts.

I respectfully disagree. I think the reason is pure greed. Greed is a natural human feeling that usually comes from a basic survival instinct. That's why greed is deeply embedded in our society. Also, that's another reason why Vulcans are superior to humans.

Yes, greed is deeply embedded. But it rests on a bedrock of stupidity and incompetence. And even the dullest of greedy bastiges can figure out that if Money = Good, then pissing off the people who have it, and who, until you pissed them off, wanted to give you some, = Bad.

No argument at all on the superiority of Vulcans (or whales, for that matter) to humans.

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