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German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

the-decoder.com

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Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

Damn, that makes public facing LLMs a horrible liability

Good.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Multiple people report that comments such as "Service was slow", or three star rating without comment were removed. If Google started to show how many reviews were removed, it was because the lawfare started to seriously affect the ratings.

"Lawfare" is a propogandistic term coined and used hypocritically by people who get away with doing illegal things themselves, and have a long track record of getting revenge for being legally indicted and prosecuted, by gleefully going after innocent people on their enemies list with the very legal system they control themselves. And you know exactly who I mean, who uses that term all the time.

The term is older than Trump. Suing everyone who criticizes you is a classic example of lawfare. The goal is not justice but the chilling effect created by your legal actions.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it good? Everyone with common sense knows AI can be wrong. And it’s not buried in their TOS. It’s in the chat box. But even if it wasn’t, it’s ridiculous to create liability for AI chatbots.

it’s ridiculous to create liability for AI chatbots. Liability isn't being *created* here, it has existed legally for a very long time. False information can cause real harm --- and the legal burden of proof is on the source. Search engines were provided legal exemption on the basis that they were simply quoting/referencing 3rd party sources who where legally liable for the content. LLM chatbots legally exceed these…

AI overviews cites it's sources though...

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

You cannot get sued for a review just because it's lower than 5 stars. But of course if you write something like "I found a dead cockroach in my pizza", or "I hard that they don't clean the dishes enough" in a review without proof, that's defamation. And it doesn't matter if you give 1 or 5 stars with the review.

Is this self contradictory?

Making a claim of 3 star service, without providing 3 star service evidence, isn't any different than a claim like they don't clean the dishes enough. Sure, you didn't write out the exact words, but by submitting the review, you still submitted such a claim, and so it remains a question of if you provided evidence to prove it, which gets into how deep the legal system wants the evidence verified (is a picture enough, or do you need to provide evidence the picture is of the store at the date and time relevant to your review).

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#455
This silly game where the EU invents its own rules and tries to impose them globally must stop. Their business is not needed, and the collateral damage with regards to censorship, manipulation, and erosion of fundamental liberties far outpaces any value their continued participation in e-commerce might bring. This sort of paternalistic and insidious bureaucratic encroachment into every aspect of life is completely antithetical to everything the internet should be. We don't owe them anything, and pretending they (and the UK) have some sort of standing in determination of how the world works simply accelerates the degradation.

The solution is simple. Block the EU from accessing any of your services. They can make their own search and social media and digital marketing and AI.

Good luck to them. VPNs will boom.

I can understand the UK struggling with their imperialistic traditions and so on, but you'd think Germans at least would have some humility in trying to project their global ideas and ambitions on the world at this point.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#456
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that Google is manufacturing answers There isn't someone at a keyboard typing content. It's still just search, repeating quotes from other websites. The difference is that the algorithms have turned lossy, so the quotes are not always preserved in their original form.

Obviously, I understand that and maybe you shouldn't have cut short the quote from my comment as that demonstrates exactly and precisely what is going on. i.e. > Now that Google is manufacturing answers using their own LLM To be honest, I find it somewhat rude that you select a portion of what I wrote and then criticise it.

[deleted]

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think these are harmless statements? Yes, I do. An assertion made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence, whether it comes from Google or from you. If you demand perfection, you will receive nothing. Why is that so hard for people to understand? The world simply cannot work the way you say it should.

You can easily damage a persons reputation, make them unemployable or social outcasts, create an environment damaging to their mental health without any proof. Believing that the public will dismiss claims, just because you stay that there's no proof is rather naive. A Danish newspaper at one point falsely claimed that a named person had raped a child, with no evidence. The only way that person escaped public judgeme…

Yeah, but imagine showing up in court with an AI overview as your only source for the defamation.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#458
post #449

Companies should just stop providing AI to police states like Germany. Apparently their citizens believe anything they read.

So if i were to write a false statement about you that would result in legal consequences for you, im not liable?

Good point, I didn't consider that.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#459
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Shrug) That sounds like their problem, if they reflexively believe everything Google's AI tells them. No one I respect, care for, or work with would believe such a thing without additional justification. Anyone who does accept Google's AI output blindly will soon find that their mistaken opinion of CamperBob2 is the least of their problems. There is a reason Google goes (well) out of their way to warn people that th…

Are you really that ignorant of the past? There are so many cases of people suffering from wrong accusations. They get death threats. People harass them on the street. Throw stones into their windows. Beat up their kids. Trash their car. Deny them jobs, or leases, kick them out of their apartment. You have no idea what it can mean to end up in such a situation.

The source of the accusation is arguably more impactful than the accusation itself.

No one with a straight face would compare an AI overview saying someone is an asshole to the New York Times running a story saying someone is an asshole.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#460
post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now that Google is manufacturing answers There isn't someone at a keyboard typing content. It's still just search, repeating quotes from other websites. The difference is that the algorithms have turned lossy, so the quotes are not always preserved in their original form.

Obviously, I understand that and maybe you shouldn't have cut short the quote from my comment as that demonstrates exactly and precisely what is going on. i.e. > Now that Google is manufacturing answers using their own LLM To be honest, I find it somewhat rude that you select a portion of what I wrote and then criticise it.

Equally obvious is that it doesn't matter what you do or don't understand. Nor does it matter if you find something to be rude. The comments, they are not written for anyone in particular. This is a public forum. Comments are there for all.
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