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German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

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Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#331

Post by Hugsbox »

hunterpayne wrote: post #259
pdpi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I post “heathrow83829 is a convicted poopoo head” (replace with your favourite crime) as if it were a factual claim, you’d be well within your rights to sue me for defamation even if people should apply some critical thinking skills and say “wait a minute, how would pdpi know that? Are you sure he isn’t just talking out of his arse?” Now, search engines are usually afforded some amount of protection against defama…

The other big point is that some people treat LLMs as if they are truth. We all know that they get a lot wrong, a lot of the time. Yesterday I watch both Elon post something somewhere between badly worded and wrong and another user used Grok to "prove him wrong", but this time being completely wrong in a different way. And this was a matter of law which can be looked up. Anything within throwing distance of politics…

We don't all know they get it wrong a lot. In fact, there's an overwhelming number of people who take it at face value

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#332

Post by harvey9 »

Saline9515 wrote: post #285
brainwad wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with monopolies. Google was protected from defamation law with search because the page title and snippets were direct quotes from the linked result page. Whereas with AI overviews, the copy is written by a Google-controlled LLM.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

Here's an article from outside the tech sector, which I am linking to as a corroboration since this is quite surprising for those of us unfamiliar with German law.

https://www.thelocal.de/20260504/how-a-google-maps-update-ex...

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#333

Post by CarlitosHighway »

Saline9515 wrote: post #285
brainwad wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with monopolies. Google was protected from defamation law with search because the page title and snippets were direct quotes from the linked result page. Whereas with AI overviews, the copy is written by a Google-controlled LLM.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

You cannot get sued for a review just because it's lower than 5 stars. But of course if you write something like "I found a dead cockroach in my pizza", or "I hard that they don't clean the dishes enough" in a review without proof, that's defamation. And it doesn't matter if you give 1 or 5 stars with the review.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#334

Post by duskdozer »

dyauspitr wrote: post #65

So stupid. What is this with making perfect the enemy of good. You can never guarantee the output of an LLM does that mean Germany does get to use them?

No, it means that Google will be held liable for false or libelous information it provides to users by means of generative AI. It's not banned. Of course, if Google decides that its generative AI produces too much false or libelous content, it may choose to stop doing so in Germany, where it will be held liable for damages it causes.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#335

Post by donaldjbiden »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #301
Saline9515 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

> HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44734895 This post is written by an LLM, and possibly a complete fabrication.

[dead]

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#336

Post by CarlitosHighway »

3ot wrote: post #307
applfanboysbgon wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44734895 This post is written by an LLM, and possibly a complete fabrication.

Yeah, I agree about the LLM part. But can confirm from personal experience that businesses threaten to sue based on Google Maps reviews.

Let them sue then. Unless you lie in your review ("There was a used condom in my burger, 1 star"), nothing will happen.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#337

Post by CarlitosHighway »

arrowsmith wrote: post #304
Saline9515 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

See also: Germany's leader filing hundreds of criminal complaints against people who insult him on social media: https://rmx.news/article/germany-chancellor-merz-quietly-fil...

"Germany's leader" - that's how you know it's a low-brow article.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#338

Post by conartist6 »

brainwad wrote: post #237
Hfuffzehn wrote: post #220

If I get it correctly I like the ruling. So Google has established a product called Search. For that product rules have been established. Google has monopolized that product. Now Google is replacing that product with a new product. But they keep calling it the same thing. Because they want to keep their monopoly. That is what has been deemed illegal. Gemini is not illegal. Pretending the worst version of Gemini is Se…

It has nothing to do with monopolies. Google was protected from defamation law with search because the page title and snippets were direct quotes from the linked result page. Whereas with AI overviews, the copy is written by a Google-controlled LLM.

Right. If Google isn't liable for that content nobody is.

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#339

Post by Saline9515 »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #301
Saline9515 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

> HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44734895 This post is written by an LLM, and possibly a complete fabrication.

People don't need LLMs to lie, and someone in the comments tells a similar experience. You can also find plenty of similar anecdotes using a search engine of your choice.

You can even find many articles from specialized lawyers if you search in German: https://www.prinz.law/bewertungen/klage-zugestellt-wegen-neg...

Re: German ruling declares Google liable for false answers in AI Overviews

#340

Post by camillomiller »

CarlitosHighway wrote: post #333
Saline9515 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It should be noted that defamation law has a very low threshold in Germany, to the point that businesses routinely sue Google Maps users for less-than-5-stars reviews. Google had to change their display of reviews because of this. Three stars review is taken down for "libel": https://support.google.com/maps/thread/367778263/google-maps... HNer gets a legal threat after saying that he didn't like a doctor: https://new…

You cannot get sued for a review just because it's lower than 5 stars. But of course if you write something like "I found a dead cockroach in my pizza", or "I hard that they don't clean the dishes enough" in a review without proof, that's defamation. And it doesn't matter if you give 1 or 5 stars with the review.

I wrote a one star review and posted pictures of a badly burnt pizza served at a restaurant in Berlin. Google sent me an email telling me they removed that because the restaurant filed a defamation claim
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