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Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

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Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#91

Post by rhizome »

Evbn wrote: post #80
eaurouge wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketability should not be the only metric for valuing skills. How do you select the immigrant whose child will be the next Michael Phelps, or the next Einstein, or the next Pele?

You select marketable immigrants with the resources to invest in education and training, like the people you named's parents.

Pele grew up poor, Einstein's dad was a salesman, and Michael Phelps' parents are a retired cop and a principal, none of which would be eligible under the kinds of criteria being discussed here.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#92

Post by Vivtek »

btilly wrote: post #9
nhashem wrote: post #7

From the administration's response: "As a part of immigration reform, the Administration strongly supports legislation to attract and retain foreign students who graduate with advanced STEM degrees, to establish a start-up visa for foreign-born entrepreneurs to start businesses and create jobs, and to reform the employment-based immigration system to better meet the needs of the U.S. economy. However, the Administrat…

Because they want to force Democrats to be on record voting against letting entrepreneurs into the country. The potential for attack ads during the next election cycle matters more in Washington DC than actually getting things done.

And if they vote for it, Democrats can be accused of being hypocritical when it comes to diversity. It's a no-lose situation for the GOP.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#93

Post by msgilligan »

hack_edu wrote: post #10
dmk23 wrote: post #6

I hope all the Obama supporters here still feel good about helping re-elect the man. Rest assured he is still going to support amnesty for unskilled illegals who are more likely to vote Democrat for years to come. EDIT: It is pretty funny how the downvoters fail to acknowledge the basic facts about the politics of the issue and instead fall for the Administration's excuses and rush to condemn "conspiracy theories". T…

Chill out. This has nothing to do with skilled/unskilled, illegal/legal. Its about reform for all of immigration policy, not just those who can already make a living for themselves anywhere. Plus, and I hate to say it, but there's very clearly much greater need (not demand, need) for the sorts of jobs 'unskilled illegals' end up doing than the high-skill (read: class) jobs that this piece of legislation addresses. An…

The immigrants-voting-schtick ain't no conspiracy theory. It's simple demographics (~10million x ~70% ~= net +4 million votes for the Democrats). I'm pro-amnesty, but ignoring the obvious electoral effect and the partisan interests around it is just not thinking clearly.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#94

Post by Alterlife »

anigbrowl wrote: post #43
sharkweek wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A little OT : Here's a great example of a bill being written with explicit intent of making anyone who votes against it look like a terrible person: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Children_from_Intern... Written by Lamar Smith, Mr. Privacy Invader himself -- make sure to read the Privacy issues section of the wiki page

Lamar Smith also authored the existing immigration law (IIRIRA) which is widely considered to be an abject failure. One provision had esteemed Judge Richard Posner exclaiming 'the law can't be that ridiculous!' before setting it aside in a recent case. The law had a provision for granting advance parole to people whose immigration proceedings were incomplete so they could leave the country for things like weddings, f…

I am not American, and I have no idea how American politics works... The bottom line to me is that despite (or because of) the things this chap is doing, he got reelected. Why are Americans voting for him?

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#95

Post by pandaman »

seldo wrote: post #85
Evbn wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If immigrants benefit from social insurance, the whole equation falls apart. But you can't allow immigration and then refuse social services, so.....

Immigrants are in no way entitled to social services. If an immigrant on a work visa loses their job, they are required to leave the country within 10 days. However, immigrants on visas still pay full taxes. So actually, immigrants make social services cheaper to provide. Any other general goods -- roads, fire services, etc. -- are paid for by taxes, and immigrants pay all the same taxes as citizens.

There are no immigrants on work visas. Illegal immigrants, by definition, don't have any visas and legal immigrants, the topic of the discussion, have an immigration visa which grants a lawful permanent resident status upon entering the country.

Diversity visa immigrants are definitely entitled to all the support and benefits. They are also not required to work to keep their status. I have not seen the DV statistics so I would be very happy if somebody corrected me here, but I imagine the unemployment among a bunch of random people who moved to a different country should be pretty high: it should be pretty hard to find a job in a different country without special skills. Often without even basic language skills.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#96

Post by davidw »

wmil wrote: post #41
pyre wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a reason that we need to reallocate current visas? Why not just create 55K new STEM visas?

The only requirement for a diversity visa is a high school equivalent. Considering how poor the job market is for HS only graduates, limiting visas to people with marketable skills makes a lot of sense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#97

Post by yardie »

dmk23 wrote: post #6

I hope all the Obama supporters here still feel good about helping re-elect the man. Rest assured he is still going to support amnesty for unskilled illegals who are more likely to vote Democrat for years to come. EDIT: It is pretty funny how the downvoters fail to acknowledge the basic facts about the politics of the issue and instead fall for the Administration's excuses and rush to condemn "conspiracy theories". T…

The bill presented is crap. That is a fact.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#98

Post by zeroonetwothree »

sthatipamala wrote: post #44
seldo wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are Visas available to anybody, for any reason, from any country. They are good because immigration is good. But let me explain a bit further. Most American visas are related to a specific job, or a family connection, or education. You can't just turn up and stay -- you have to have a reason, and a ton of documentation. But that's not how immigration has, historically, worked: the original American colonists and…

Could you tell me why you claim immigration is fundamentally good? Interested in hearing more.

Immigration is the single biggest way to increase human welfare. Almost every immigrant into the US experiences a massive increase in quality of life, earnings, and other metrics of success. It's far more effective than charity or foreign aid, and far cheaper.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#99

Post by kalleboo »

mynameishere wrote: post #26
nhashem wrote: post #7

From the administration's response: "As a part of immigration reform, the Administration strongly supports legislation to attract and retain foreign students who graduate with advanced STEM degrees, to establish a start-up visa for foreign-born entrepreneurs to start businesses and create jobs, and to reform the employment-based immigration system to better meet the needs of the U.S. economy. However, the Administrat…

without "cannibalizing" the diversity visas. Well, the diversity visas were the most brutal possible attack on sanity ever passed by a legislature. "Oh, you came from XYZ wretched backwater, here's your VISA...on the basis of your wretchedness." Sad, sad, sad, to live in such dismal times.

Are you calling most of Western Europe (including Germany, France, all the Scandinavian countries) "wretched backwaters"? What country DOESN'T count as a wretched backwater, aside from the U.S. of course?

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#100

Post by __alexs »

celer wrote: post #65
scarmig wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, of course, totally insane to let people voluntarily choose to work here and make voluntary economic transactions with other adults who voluntarily want to pay them money to provide goods and services for Americans to voluntarily purchase.

Well, yes, when you are making the decision based on someone being from a poor country. There are better measures on which visas could be distributed. I strongly support increasing the number of total visas, but that is separate.

> There are better measures on which visas could be distributed.

Better for who?

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