It is absolutely fine to distill the IP of everyone else, but you'd be violating the TOS to distill ours :)
Is there a technical term for this phenomenon? Ladder pulling? https://blog.google/innovation-and-ai/technology/safety-secu...
NIMBYism
If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
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Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#72It's a SaaS, when in the history of SaaS has it ever been a good idea to trust that the company won't ruin the product under you?
Most of the time, which is why SaaS has been very popular.
In comparison to some absurdist baseline maybe, actual software NEVER stops working under you, so in comparison something like an works 80% "most of the time" is godawful. Though I would argue that with SaaS the trend is toward 100% likelyhood to fuck your shit up given enough time, and it has borne out this way in the real world time and time again. SaaS is popular because it allows companies to more effectively extort you for your dollars.
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#73Intentionally and silently sabotaging work done with Claude whenever Anthropic decides it is appropriate is unacceptable behavior, and comically tone deaf given the state of open models. Why on earth would I ever pay for a malicious product?
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#74Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#75I guess an uncharitable way to read this might be “the ML engineers/scientists want to automate all of the jobs except their own.”
The charitable read is that their restrictions for "safety" (i.e. what's separating Fable from Mythos) makes this inevitable. If you could just make your own Mythos it would circumvent the protection. Which kinda just highlights how weird this situation is.
"Haves" and "Havenots" is how they should be calling, init
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#76I think this is a bit hyperbolic. Fable will fall back to Opus.
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#77The moat looks deep today but it's going to become more shallow every year.
Training a new model from scratch takes serious resources. Post-training/fine-tuning an existing model, dramatically less. The knowledge for the process was esoteric two years ago, now you can ask a current model (one of several) to walk you through it, while building the tools to do it as you go. Several of my recent weekend projects have been exactly that sort of thing, just so I understand it better. "Let's make a LoRA", "let's generate a corpus of training data for fine-tuning a model for X task", "how can I put my face in a text-to-image model?" stuff like that. All of this is do-able on kinda modest local hardware (a couple of old GPUs or a Strix Halo or DGX Spark or big Mac Studio), or for a few bucks or a few hundred bucks or a few thousand bucks of cloud compute, depending on scale.
Scale that up to corporate or startup scale, with the money that's been flowing into AI for the past couple/few years, and it's obviously there's going to be a lot of competition just as the top model makers need to start ringing the cash register. That's a lot of opportunities for people to look at their ballooning Claude usage costs and find other ways to do the same thing for drastically less money. $100/month or $200/month is a no-brainer for Claude Code with probably the best model for coding, but they're pushing more users to usage-based billing which becomes cost-prohibitive real fast.
So, they desperately need to continue to be among the only ways to solve the hardest problems, and they need the alternatives to cost a similar amount. They can count on OpenAI and Google to ratchet up prices, too. They probably can't count on everybody, especially the vendors in China with different economics, to do it. And, they can't count on companies to look at their own usage and not ask, "Can we train a smaller specialist model that does this one thing we're using the Anthropic API most heavily for?"
I'm hoping they just mean stuff like using Claude for distillation by e.g. Chinese model makers, and not "how do I fine-tune Gemma 4 to write more like me?" or whatever.
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#78Can't you just switch the toggle that says "switch models when a message is flagged"? I turned mine off in case anything does get flagged I will know.. For now, I'm really not happy about this limited rollout and then turning off. That's probably the most egregious thing I think Anthropic has done recently
This is a separate mechanism. The user is not notified about the flagging and rather than redirecting to a weaker model, the response is intentionally sabotaged. It's user-hostile to the point of parody.
I stand corrected. That sucks. A lot.
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#79This is a fun peek into the economic implications of RSI/ASI. Because it's so infinitely valuable that it basically destroys all markets, labs will eventually do stuff like stop releasing models completely and skipping out on contracted commitments because they'll have the power to just drive their competitors out of business before the legal battle gets expensive. Cloud providers - at first smaller ones, then the hy…
Nothing is infinitely valuable.
Especially when you can actively choose to not use Anthropic. They think they have a moat from all of the IP they've stolen. Just wait until there's nothing more to steal and the laws eventually turn against them. And let's be honest about these companies. It is very much Dario and Sam and Sundar and Mark and Peter and Elon and... These are the choices they are making and hopefully they are held accountable both legally and within society as a whole.
Re: If Claude Fable stops helping you, you'll never know
#80It is absolutely fine to distill the IP of everyone else, but you'd be violating the TOS to distill ours :)
Yep. Demand open source approve licenses for LLM weights.
The Chinese apache 2.0 models might be censored, but at least they can’t sue you in the US for finding the censorship line.
OTOH, the US models are definitely censored, per TFA, and they’re making vague legal threats against anyone that encounters the censored edge of the model.