Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

521–530 of 735 posts

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#521

Post by consp »

tonoto wrote: post #508
shykes wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also forced EU voters to consider how much they value these services It's been a while since I left Europe, and I'm rusty on that particular layer of civics. Do EU voters actually have a say in this kind of regulation? Or is it all decided on the executive side which is only accountable to member states and not to individual citizens?

It might be that we have a say, but there are a lot of decisions happening in Brussels that it "feels like" we, EU voters, don't have a say in. Such as: - Chat Control - Vehicle regulations (mandates on "eCall", disturbing audio visuals and other "safety measuers) in Regulation (EU) 2018/858 - Eventual upcoming ethanol restrictions - Ban on plastic drinking straws - Drink caps that are stuck to the bottles - Ban on p…

Don't know where you get your apples but I can buy 1 if I want. Just not at the supermarket since they optimise to sell you more than you need. No regulation involved here.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#522

Post by nomel »

microtonal wrote: post #315
MBCook wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this isn’t a normal app. Apple is the one handing over all the data to the AI service. Couldn’t someone argue that they “knowingly participated“? Do you think they want that risk?

Like they now hand over all your contacts, your location, calendar entries, microphone access, camera access. If you choose to do so. Nothing holds them from having designed this as an API that others can use where the user has permission toggles of what data they want to share with the LLM provider.

This is clearly very different from usual permissions and access.

This would be unprecedented access to user data, enabling the most complete user profiling ever.

Ad companies, like Meta and Google, are going to spend huge amounts of money getting agents ready, because there will be a ridiculous amount of money behind all the data they're going slurp up, and the profiles they'll build for you.

Unless, Apple can figure out how to keep the leaches, that have consistently proven to be so, with court cases for receipts, at bay.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#523

Post by tqwhite »

ornornor wrote: post #213
eykanal wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google eng mgr here. I've worked on a few projects related to compliance with various government policies. This isn't "assign a two-pizza team to it, will be done in a quarter"; these types of compliance efforts can mean completely redoing multiple core systems to handle privacy, wipeout, audit, reporting, per-location policies, etc etc. These efforts can involve hundreds to thousands of people for multiple years. Su…

Okay? I don’t see the problem, these requirements are known from the beginning so if complying wasn’t planned and requires re-architecturing the software to make it happens that’s on the engineering org not on the EU regulator. Unless I’m missing something?

AS we all have complained, Apple has been working on Apple Intelligence for, roughly speaking, forever. Their private compute cloud thing and the protocols that protect it have, I bet, been in place for years. That's what you are missing.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#524

Post by tqwhite »

inetknght wrote: post #258
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is complying with the DMA from the outset could mean having to launch a year later everywhere. Skipping the EU makes sense in a fast-moving market (if you’re designated as a gatekeeper).

> Skipping the EU makes sense in a fast-moving market (if you’re designated as a gatekeeper). Skipping the EU makes sense if the company doesn't want to comply with regulations aimed directly at it. > complying with the DMA from the outset could mean having to launch a year later everywhere. Oh no! Anyway... Once upon a time, companies delayed launches specifically so they'd launch a better product. That seems to be…

If, like me, you specifically do not want third parties inside the Apple ecosystem, Apple has done a great job. I totally hate the EU's insistence of tearing down Apple's walled garden. That is a huge reason I like their products so much.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#526

Post by Petersipoi »

simjnd wrote: post #141
jandrewrogers wrote: post #79

I understand Apple's position on this one. This is essentially a backdoor into all of your data. It is also a very useful feature. The EU regulators are disallowing guardrails without which this backdoor will be used to strip-mine people's personal data. The privacy implications are not legible to most people. If I was more cynical I would suggest that this is being used as an end-run around encryption, since the enc…

It would only be a backdoor if it's implemented as a backdoor. The way Apple Health exchanges data with 3rd-party trackers (Fitbit, Garmin, etc.) is very well built and a good model of how other components in iOS could allow data exchange with very granular permissions. Apple touts the "Private Cloud Compute". If they found a way to share your personal context to process on their cloud in a private and anonymized way…

What?

You want Apple to anonymize a users data, then hand that users data to a third party who knows who the user is? I don't think PCC is doing what you think it's doing.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#527

Post by simjnd »

m3kw9 wrote: post #243
simjnd wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, wanting operability, alternative default apps, equal access to APIs is "wanting to live in the stone age". POSIX is the stone age model, and Microsoft is the future.

[flagged]

Generalization. "You guys" who? Most people actually know DMA has nothing to do with privacy. There are ways to hand off PID-stripped data to a 3rd-party.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#529

Post by Petersipoi »

hellisothers wrote: post #195
callc wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why make fun of freedom? Have some dignity. We all deserve the right to fully own our general compute devices.

I’ll bite, why do you deserve this “right”?

Because if you call something a right, then anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist. It's simple.

Re: Apple decided not to roll out Siri in EU after denied request for exemption

#530

Post by afthonos »

Henchman21 wrote: post #478
eastbound wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a say at a 4th level of derived decision, which is 2 levels more than what people call a democracy. Also, the other political party will do it too. = We don’t have a say. We voted NO to the new EU treaties in 2008 and the new president decided that electing him meant that we approved the same treaties. They only let us vote when we agree, anyway.

Voting the world over is a joke. IIRC it was Carlin who said “if voting mattered they wouldn’t met us do it”.

People the world over: (die for the right to vote)

One comedian: LOL they only killed them to make you think it was valuable.

The Internet: (sagely) What a wise assessment by a wise man of wisdom.

Post reply on HN