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Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

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Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#41

Post by wmil »

pyre wrote: post #28
deepGem wrote: post #17

I don't understand what's really wrong in diverting 55,000 visas from a random, unplanned allocation scheme (diversity) to a more metrics driven allocation scheme (education). How is this not 'true reform'?

Is there a reason that we need to reallocate current visas? Why not just create 55K new STEM visas?

The only requirement for a diversity visa is a high school equivalent. Considering how poor the job market is for HS only graduates, limiting visas to people with marketable skills makes a lot of sense.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#42

Post by commandar »

ekm2 wrote: post #33
hack_edu wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chill out. This has nothing to do with skilled/unskilled, illegal/legal. Its about reform for all of immigration policy, not just those who can already make a living for themselves anywhere. Plus, and I hate to say it, but there's very clearly much greater need (not demand, need) for the sorts of jobs 'unskilled illegals' end up doing than the high-skill (read: class) jobs that this piece of legislation addresses. An…

Right,the american economy is in danger of tanking if the country does not hire more janitors.Science and Engineering phds can look after themselves elsewhere,Canada maybe?

California's -- in particular -- argicultural economy is highly reliant on unskilled, migrant workers. Producing food for people to eat is somewhat important.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#43

Post by anigbrowl »

sharkweek wrote: post #18
btilly wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they want to force Democrats to be on record voting against letting entrepreneurs into the country. The potential for attack ads during the next election cycle matters more in Washington DC than actually getting things done.

A little OT : Here's a great example of a bill being written with explicit intent of making anyone who votes against it look like a terrible person: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protecting_Children_from_Intern... Written by Lamar Smith, Mr. Privacy Invader himself -- make sure to read the Privacy issues section of the wiki page

Lamar Smith also authored the existing immigration law (IIRIRA) which is widely considered to be an abject failure. One provision had esteemed Judge Richard Posner exclaiming 'the law can't be that ridiculous!' before setting it aside in a recent case.

The law had a provision for granting advance parole to people whose immigration proceedings were incomplete so they could leave the country for things like weddings, funerals and so on and get back in to pick up where they left off. However, leaving the country also caused the immigration application to be considered abandoned, and the advance parole could be rejected. It even says on the advance parole application form that if granted, the parole may or may not be worth the paper it's written on - it depends on how the immigration officer at the port of entry is feeling on that particular day.

That should tell you all you need to know about Rep. Lamar Smith.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#44

Post by sthatipamala »

seldo wrote: post #36
GuiA wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm unfamiliar with diversity visas- who are they for, and what "good" are they supposed to provide?

They are Visas available to anybody, for any reason, from any country. They are good because immigration is good. But let me explain a bit further. Most American visas are related to a specific job, or a family connection, or education. You can't just turn up and stay -- you have to have a reason, and a ton of documentation. But that's not how immigration has, historically, worked: the original American colonists and…

Could you tell me why you claim immigration is fundamentally good? Interested in hearing more.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#45

Post by anigbrowl »

rndmize wrote: post #19
nhashem wrote: post #7

From the administration's response: "As a part of immigration reform, the Administration strongly supports legislation to attract and retain foreign students who graduate with advanced STEM degrees, to establish a start-up visa for foreign-born entrepreneurs to start businesses and create jobs, and to reform the employment-based immigration system to better meet the needs of the U.S. economy. However, the Administrat…

If this is the case, the title of the article strikes me as poorly chosen.

Declan McCullough's reporting on legal issues frequently seems completely off base to me.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#46

Post by untog »

temphn wrote: post #13

What is the argument for 55000 random visas at a time when the US economy is doing very poorly? Is this a game? US citizenship clearly has market value. Billions of dollars could be raised by turning these into entrepreneur visas or charging per visa (it's not like the US doesn't already do this, but the price is way too low). If we're taxing current citizens, and we have 50% exit taxes, why not entry taxes? When dem…

Visa != citizenship

And there are already plenty of routes for rich people to obtain visas, just by proving that they have a lot of money. These visas are for workers.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#47

Post by andrewpi »

onetwothreefour wrote: post #34
temphn wrote: post #13

What is the argument for 55000 random visas at a time when the US economy is doing very poorly? Is this a game? US citizenship clearly has market value. Billions of dollars could be raised by turning these into entrepreneur visas or charging per visa (it's not like the US doesn't already do this, but the price is way too low). If we're taxing current citizens, and we have 50% exit taxes, why not entry taxes? When dem…

Thanks for weighing in with your uninformed opinion on something while also invoking the age old "when the US economy is doing very poorly" straw man which has nothing to do with the DV lottery. Those DV lottery winners pay US taxes while having no citizenship rights, so you have literally no idea what you're talking about.

I believe DV winners have citizenship rights after residing in the US for 5 years.

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#49

Post by sharkweek »

onetwothreefour wrote: post #39
sharkweek wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I'm saying the bill needs to be rewritten to not cannibalize the diversity visas. We need both high skill and low skill labor in massive quantities; and as a country, we're dancing around a ridiculously broken immigration system.

The assumption that the DV lottery only brings in low skill labor is both insulting and wrong.

Your comment seems a little obtuse. My argument didn't make that assumption. A lottery is random; ideally providing a diverse selection of people across all skill, education and economic levels

Re: Obama opposes House passage of H.R. 6429

#50

Post by ptgloden »

mynameishere wrote: post #26
nhashem wrote: post #7

From the administration's response: "As a part of immigration reform, the Administration strongly supports legislation to attract and retain foreign students who graduate with advanced STEM degrees, to establish a start-up visa for foreign-born entrepreneurs to start businesses and create jobs, and to reform the employment-based immigration system to better meet the needs of the U.S. economy. However, the Administrat…

without "cannibalizing" the diversity visas. Well, the diversity visas were the most brutal possible attack on sanity ever passed by a legislature. "Oh, you came from XYZ wretched backwater, here's your VISA...on the basis of your wretchedness." Sad, sad, sad, to live in such dismal times.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." - a certain statue's impossibly brutal attack on sanity
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