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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#621

Post by ayylemao »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96
arjie wrote: post #31

This is such a fascinating referendum. The population is at 9.1m, and at 9.5m it appears they'll stall asylum and family reunification, and at 10m they'll execute a Swexit - Switzerland isn't in the EU but it allows freedom of movement to EU nationals. Boy it is interesting to see what's going on in the world right now. There were so many things that I saw growing up as relatively solid but I just happened to grow up…

> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause.

its called Switzerleave

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#622

Post by Gud »

Argonaut998 wrote: post #80
cynicalsecurity wrote: post #64

Leaving the EU or ending free movement with EU countries leads to a significant increase in immigration from the third world, as Brexit showed.

The Swiss ruling class don’t have as much disdain for their populace. It will only end up that way if the Swiss people will it. A lot of the UK’s problems were a result of the EU being vindictive as well. The EU won’t act vindictively because they aren’t in the EU.

What “ruling class”? Switzerland is a direct democracy.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#623

Post by pjmlp »

saguntum wrote: post #579
throw1234567891 wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU.

Switzerland is, however, a member of the Schengen Area, which is very relevant to this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area EU citizens can freely live and work in Switzerland and vice-versa. It would be difficult to reliably cap immigration from other EU countries and stay in the Schengen Area.

When I was at CERN, it was before Schengen became a thing, so as Portuguese I had the same VISA issues as someone else coming out of the other side of the planet.

Worse, being at CERN wasn't a plus for the hiring process, I would need to apply to the position as if still living in Portugal, as my VISA was tied to CERN directly with a three month deadline to leave Switzerland after the contract duration.

It also did not help, that my fellow country folks do not have a positive image across the country, for various kind of reasons, which is another issue I experienced while living there, like being refused entry in clubs when showing a Portuguese ID card.

Eventually I moved back to another EU country, still I do visit Switzerland, from time to time.

Pity that right wing movements are taking off all over the place.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#624

Post by soco »

herbst wrote: post #82
soco wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm totally missing the explanation how my quality of life will increase when Swiss products cannot be sold in the EU anymore because of the price hikes and double bureaucracy - including no more cross-border work. Job loss doesn't say much "quality of life", nor does higher prices on imports.

What products are you thinking? Chocolate and cheese are actually not that relevant as some people want it to be. Gold trade, software, banking however is unlikely to decrease a lot no matter the border rules.

I take this question as a joke, it would be regrettable to know so little about Switzerland yet comment like this. Because more than half of the Swiss exports are chemical and pharma, then come machinery and electronics and... and yeah, food altogether is 3% as well.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#625

Post by hocuspocus »

saguntum wrote: post #579
throw1234567891 wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is not a member of the EU.

Switzerland is, however, a member of the Schengen Area, which is very relevant to this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area EU citizens can freely live and work in Switzerland and vice-versa. It would be difficult to reliably cap immigration from other EU countries and stay in the Schengen Area.

FoM doesn't require to stay in Schengen-Dublin though.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#626

Post by hocuspocus »

pjmlp wrote: post #623
saguntum wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland is, however, a member of the Schengen Area, which is very relevant to this discussion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area EU citizens can freely live and work in Switzerland and vice-versa. It would be difficult to reliably cap immigration from other EU countries and stay in the Schengen Area.

When I was at CERN, it was before Schengen became a thing, so as Portuguese I had the same VISA issues as someone else coming out of the other side of the planet. Worse, being at CERN wasn't a plus for the hiring process, I would need to apply to the position as if still living in Portugal, as my VISA was tied to CERN directly with a three month deadline to leave Switzerland after the contract duration. It also did n…

Schengen is not FoM. Visa isn't an acronym. And CERN workers are on diplomatic permits anyway.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#627

Post by soco »

SllX wrote: post #578
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There’s never anything sane with population caps by fiat Why? It’s repressive if done to cap a natively-growing population, since that means government controlling reproduction (à la one-child policy). But government has controlled immigration for generations. I’m asking as someone who is genuinely on the fence on this vote.

Population Control ≠ Immigration Control. Saying that you’re going to cap your population necessarily implies you’re going to take policy measures to grow no further than the capped amount, which are by their nature, repressive. That said I did see in some other comments earlier after I posted this that this is a back door way to axe the Swiss-EU bilateral agreements all at once. I don’t know how true that is, but if…

It was put on ballot as such, and overwhelmingly (by Swiss standards) rejected. Now it's time for trying different backdoors (not the first try either). It's a constant circus, EU and the EU citizens being the demon eating at the Swiss well-being.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#628

Post by lifestyleguru »

greggoB wrote: post #380
lifestyleguru wrote: post #237

Switzerland is much less desirable and attractive than they think they are.

That's not at all reflected in the immigration numbers: ot has one of the highest proportional rates of immigration in Europe, and the brain drain of top talent from neighbouring countries has actually been a point of moral finger-wagging. Want to try again?

Then set the population limit and take the best of the best only. Go for it. Being so popular nothing can go wrong just like your most reputable bank cannot bankrupt, right?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#629

Post by soco »

hvb2 wrote: post #147
contagiousflow wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain how adding frequency to the train network will not work to compensate higher ridership?

You can't add more trains if the schedule is full to the brink. You would need to add train tracks, and that requires big projects

These big projects are happening as we speak, so this is not the culprit - as much as the publicity of one side would like to make it.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#630

Post by pjmlp »

hocuspocus wrote: post #626
pjmlp wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was at CERN, it was before Schengen became a thing, so as Portuguese I had the same VISA issues as someone else coming out of the other side of the planet. Worse, being at CERN wasn't a plus for the hiring process, I would need to apply to the position as if still living in Portugal, as my VISA was tied to CERN directly with a three month deadline to leave Switzerland after the contract duration. It also did n…

Schengen is not FoM. Visa isn't an acronym. And CERN workers are on diplomatic permits anyway.

Lost me on the reply.
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