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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#441

Post by Aarchive »

ericmay wrote: post #118
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> execute a Swexit It wouldn’t be full Chexit. Just renegotiating and then rejecting the Schengen chapter. It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause.

> It would then be up to the EU to execute its Guillotine clause. These kinds of morally-superior, we'll show them, type of attitudes and suggestions are precisely why so many folks have come to be anti-EU. Nevermind the actual other real day-to-day issues with the organization. I'm sure you're also staunchly against Scotland and any referendum to join the EU, and against Catalonia becoming independent as well? Why s…

It's the opposite of what you think, if some countries get privileges without following the basic principles, then the EU would be unpopular.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#442

Post by MoonWalk »

bapo wrote: post #146

Swiss here and able to vote. In fact, just posted my voting letter today, before taking a 1h bike ride through the biggest city in Switzerland, having lots of space and freedom biking around in our beautiful city. When taking the train to my parents house, I pass several farms and landly smaller cities. Alot of free space in between those, train mostly has spare seats, depending on rush hour timings. There usually ar…

Considering the other EU ramifications, this is basically Swixit, is it not?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#444

Post by rayiner »

p1necone wrote: post #421
rayiner wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think people who support border controls are simply prejudiced based on skin color? Like, their problem with Little Mogadishu or Little Bangladesh is that people in those places don't need sunscreen? Do you think that, if Ilhan Omar was Albanian, people would love her?

This seems like a sarcastic/unserious comment, but based on my interactions with people who are supposedly anti-immigration - yes, it's entirely based on skin colour. Someone from India, China etc whose family immigrated in the 1800s to work in gold mines/railroads etc and probably has deeper roots in the country than the person criticising them = immigrant, bad, shouldn't be here. Somehow simultaneously taking all t…

I agree the people who lump children of Chinese railroad workers in with illegal immigrants are racist. But it’s the pro-immigration folks that do that pervasively, under the label “people of color.” Meanwhile, you have to look at pretty fringy parts of the right to find that.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#445

Post by tpholland »

rayiner wrote: post #400
tpholland wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Switzerland emphatically does not have a homogenous population. It has an exceptionally diverse population, linguistically, religiously and culturally. And yet as you say it has an exceptional record when it comes to cohesion and social trust. Living the dream!

I’d point out two things: 1) While Switzerland combines several ethnicities and cultures, the fusion dates back almost a millennium. The Old Swiss Confederacy arose in the 14th century, before Italian, French, and Romansh were even recognized as separate languages. 2) The Swiss federal structure goes to great lengths to give autonomy to the distinct groups. So it’s not accurate to say that Switzerland is “homogenous”…

I quite agree. It's a diversity of peoples who have developed an umbrella identity that dates back a long time. And it's been very successful!

They have a successful federal structure; much more so than more recent confederacies referred to by others in this thread (Belgium, Canada).

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#446

Post by rayiner »

selimthegrim wrote: post #381
rayiner wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think people who support border controls are simply prejudiced based on skin color? Like, their problem with Little Mogadishu or Little Bangladesh is that people in those places don't need sunscreen? Do you think that, if Ilhan Omar was Albanian, people would love her?

>Do you think that, if Ilhan Omar was Albanian, people would love her? You do realize who a great deal of the "southern Italians" in certain parts of New York and New Orleans actually are, right? Or is your point solely about religion?

They’re Albanians?

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#447

Post by xenonite »

0xWTF wrote: post #435
kuerbel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also swiss here. So many people seem to think that this is about refugees. Wrong. It's about Europeans. Mostly Germans. They are educated and highly skilled and for some swiss, that's a problem. They blame them for not finding a job or an appartement. Just read the comments on inside paradeplatz, you can translate with any llm, on a post about the referendum. A subset of the swiss Middle class has decided that they d…

Swiss as racists. Amazing. People know Americans harbor racist feelings because they are surrounded by people of many races. But it's trivial to demonstrate racism among any population as soon as you introduce an "other" of virtually any type.

No it isn’t racism as Germans had the same skin color. Keep in mind that Germans aren’t stereotypical anymore.

In Switzerland live over 41% migrants and children of migrants (just 8.4%). So the native Swiss are not just “surrounded” but greatly diminished.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#448

Post by [deleted] »

tpholland wrote: post #437
philipallstar wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what the exact word is - I wouldn't quite say "culture", as there are clearly different cultural backgrounds at work, but just as with Canada mixing French and Anglo traditions, there is a generally homogenous Western European metaculture at work, premised on the Enlightenment, classical liberalism, the rule of law (and equality of opportunity under the law), freedom of religion, the importance of educat…

Ah, a generally homogenous Western European metaculture then, like that Canada! Thanks for engaging with the specifics of the Swiss Enlightenment you can keep the change

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#449

Post by 3683826312819 »

kgwxd wrote: post #239
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That avoids accusations of bigotry which Europe has convinced itself doesn't exist within its domains.

Border control is not equivalent to racism. The people pushing for it loudly just tend to be doing it for blatantly racist reasons. Unsurprisingly, those people tend to abuse any ounce of power given to them. When they're granted extraordinary government powers, they make up official sounding reason to achieve their racist agenda. Hence the general consensus that any talk of border control is racism. The non-racist-d…

[dead]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#450

Post by jubilanti »

oytis wrote: post #288
kaufmae wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

most of the immigrants are highly educated professionals, big tech, pharma and meds. it‘s not the „empty“.

I think at least in Germany it's not true - among people coming to Germany there are more refugees of various kinds than professionals

Germany and Switzerland have taken dramatically different responses to the migrant crisis.
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