> And Google is a major shareholder in SpaceX, so they certainly have incentive to juice the valuation of the IPO. Google own 5-6% of the shares of SpaceX. SpaceX is seeking a valuation of $1.77T which means Google's shares would be worth $88.5B-$106.2B. I'm not a skeptic of AI/LLMs but this makes me deeply suspicious of these circular deals. What happens when the music stops?
The awkward silence at this critical point of this interview... https://youtu.be/sL9hq7Qj1qc?t=252 shows why the boat is about to go down. The sci-fi SpaceX S1 talks about asteroid mining and other imaginary chimeric stuff like space data centers... while 80 to 90 of the case is about AI. But their AI case is like BMW bragging about their thriving auto business...while renting all their car factories to Toyota.
xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
81–90 of 580 posts
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#82They have developed an LLM, so they are an AI lab, but the quality of that model suggests they're not a frontier anything.
I have the pro account for ChatGPT, Claude, Gemini, and Grok. They all have various strengths and weaknesses. My favorite is still ChatGPT, then Gemini/Claude, then Grok. Grok often feels 1-2 generations behind the competition in general use, but it has three things that I love: 1. It seems to be the best at understanding current events. Maybe due to X integration, or some other tool call optimization in the backend?…
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#83Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the big providers are charging full freight for inference. Except they're not. Anthropic's claims of temporary profitability line up exactly with when SpaceX is giving them discounted compute, OpenAI's such a shitfest they threw the CFO off the glass cliff for daring to push back against the IPO. "Profitable on inference" is an unsubstantiated rumour. Just look at the copilot changes. Demand switching to other prov…
The pricing on Open router is clear. Anthropic, OpenAI, and Google all garner a massive premium over deepseek and qwen. There's no other realistic explanation except that they're making bank.
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#84Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm not a skeptic of AI/LLMs but this makes me deeply suspicious of these circular deals. What happens when the music stops? A financial crash that will make the 2007ff crisis look tame in comparison. That is why Anthropic, OpenAI and SpaceX (which xAI belongs to) are all going public soon and why NASDAQ bent the rules to include them... the current owners all want to raid pension savings worldwide [1] to get their…
It's hard for me to see this being bigger than the great recession unless there's some vulnerabilities in the banking system we're not aware of. However, the amount of money that's being spent is going to demand a large return that I'm not sure will be made whole given the scale of investment in a time frame they want
The scenario I see is write-offs. At the moment there are hundreds of billions in IOUs being passed around, much more in liabilities than Lehman had back then in 2007. Compounding that is the frankly insane valuation - it's as clear as day that at least one of the major AI shops will go bust, they all run at a (huge) loss and sooner or later, one of them will run out of cash before achieving market dominance.
Unfortunately, OpenAI and Anthropic are valued at almost 1 trillion $ - backed by nothing but the hope on the winner surviving and achieving the classic VC-backed near-monopoly. The staff can be poached, they don't hold much in IP like patents, the servers and GPUs are mostly owned by third parties like AWS, Microsoft, Google or Oracle - once the cash runs out, they can't sell any assets for even some runway extension because there are no assets. Even the model weights and training data aren't worth much - all competitors already have training data sets of their own, it does not make sense to acquire further data, and model weights are being rendered obsolete by the constant churn of open-weight models particularly from China.
SpaceX is valued even higher, but unlike the other two candidates, they still at least got a viable business even if the entire AI BS bubble collapses, Starlink is a money printer and there's no alternative in sight that matches SpaceX and their reusable rockets.
Now, if either of the three even experiences a large drop in valuation for whatever reason, it's not just experienced VCs that can readily afford (and expect) investments to fail, but this time a lot of "everyday" investment vehicles (such as pension funds) will have to issue write-off losses, and now that they are publicly traded, that may also trigger stop-loss cascade orders further dropping prices, and retail investors will probably join in on the mass panic. That's the #1 risk IMHO.
The #2 risk is that after a collapse, the service providers (i.e. the ones owning the servers) will be sitting on a ton of hardware that has nowhere near recouped its cost. AWS, MS and Google can probably repurpose most of the hardware for their own use and rent out what remains, but they will have to eat significant accounting losses, provoking again a drop in their stock price, but this time with even more blast radius as all three of them are established stock index (and thus ETF) members that a looooot of people have exposure to. But someone like Oracle? They might actually get fried for good.
And the #3 risk is further downstream, particularly relating to NVDA. They have enjoyed years of insane profits because they are the only ones making high-performance AI chips. When demand for new chips collapses due to the event(s) I just described, they can easily shift their TSMC production slots back to GPU wafers and sell these to gamers - but at a far lower profit than before, which again can trigger stock price drops and write-offs.
I won't go further downstream - TSMC and their suppliers are IMHO pretty safe because there is just so much pent up demand from everything not AI, and the construction companies building datacenters don't have too much of a blast radius when the big guns stop expansion projects.
The concrete scenario I'm really, really afraid of: all three succeed with their IPOs, maybe they all survive a year and get included even in S&P 500. The existing shareholders and insiders all slowly dump a lot of their vested stock onto the public market, which in cleartext means into the dozens of billions of $ of retirement contributions. One day, the bubble bursts for whatever reason. The stock markets drop in a panic sell-off, either triggered by stop-loss orders or because retail investors are a herd of sheeple (just like in the 1st covid lockdown). Eventually, circuit breakers on the stock markets will trigger (just like they did in the GME post-apes collapse) and trading will pause, but it will resume until the markets have adjusted to the new valuation... and once the dust clears up, there will be a lot of blood on the floor. Possibly even riots, depending just how much retirement assets just got wiped out.
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#85They have developed an LLM, so they are an AI lab, but the quality of that model suggests they're not a frontier anything.
So they’re cutting edge in that way.
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
Someone gets bailed out and the cycle starts again. Isnt this how it works?
Hyperinflation to make the needed bailout money
See "M2SL" or "TOTBKCR" on tradingview if you want to see inflation live.
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#87Weren't we just talking about how SpaceX is valued based on some profits from starlink + tons of speculation? Yet when we learn of this new $26B in yearly revenue (2.2B/month from Google and Anthropic)the conversation does not return to that discussion. It transforms into: "xAI's tech sucks" "Google/SpaceX is Structurally Bad for the Economy" etc This is called motivated reasoning. We get new information and instead…
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Opus 4.8 has made huge jumps in being less sycophantic. I see it pushing back on ideas a lot, and that's very helpful when you're evaluating options.
Almost too much so, it often feels like opus is pushing back for the sake of pushing back. The way old models used to add disclaimers to every message regardless of content
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#89Google's parent company owns shares in SpaceX
SpaceX about to do an IPO making it the biggest grift/loss in history
Google's parent company uses Google under the pretext google needs compute (hahha) to prop up their SpaceX investment
It's not more complicated than circular investments on a planetary scale and the shamelessness and greed of everybody involved.
Re: xAI is looking more like a datacentre REIT than a frontier lab
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hyperinflation to make the needed bailout money
That's done quietly behind the scenes so leaders can blame something else for inflation. See "M2SL" or "TOTBKCR" on tradingview if you want to see inflation live.