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DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

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Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#51

Post by eqvinox »

zzo38computer wrote: post #31
readthenotes1 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is "no religion" atheist? Or is "Atheism" an organized religion now?

Atheism is not a religion, and someone who is religious can also be atheist (and some religions are not theistic), although having no religion does not necessarily make you atheist either (although many atheists are not religious). (However, considering that, putting "agnostic" in there seems to be strange compared to this.) Howveer, when knowing what should be in the list, there is the question of what the informati…

> someone who is religious can also be atheist

Technically true but I don't see the word used like that much.

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#52

Post by Daviey »

Slothrop99 wrote: post #48
zzo38computer wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand, LDS did not add another book to the Bible; Book of Mormon is not a part of the Bible, although (as far as I know) still considered a scripture according to LDS. (Nevertheless it is the reason I had thought of too (many years ago), although other people have cited different reasons.)

Well, the New Testament (what Christians care about) is entirely set in the historical first century Roman Empire [0], all places are accurate and known to exist. The Book of Mormon postulates some fantasy world perhaps not unlike Middle Earth? And also weird theological stuff from 19th century science-fiction? Sorry, that is a different religion. [0] expect for the last book of revelations of the future.

Why do you feel it is outsiders role to tell them they are not Christians, surely it's their role to self-determine?

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#54

Post by pseudalopex »

zzo38computer wrote: post #34
jltsiren wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice with Mormons is technically correct. Those who use theological considerations to define Christianity generally don't accept Mormons as Christians. For example, the Catholic Church sees Mormonism a non-Christian religion, because it rejects the Nicene Creed. People who base Christianity on cultural identity are more likely to include Mormons in the definition.

It does seem to be common to make LDS not counted as Christianity, although the reason is unclear to me. Another comment mentions that the rejection of the Nicene Creed does not seem to be the distinction. I had thought that it is because they have the Book of Mormon, although that is unclear. Orthodox have additional books of the Bible that Catholics do not have, but are still Christian. (Although, I think the addit…

Trinity means the 3 are 1.[1] Mormons believe the 3 are separate.[2]

Baptism does not mean water baptism exclusively.[3] What other sacraments did the Nicene creed mention?

The purpose of the new list was to exclude many groups. Christian Quakers exist does not mean non Christian Quakers do not exist. And the category was copied from an older list without much thought plausibly.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

[2] https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/comeuntochrist/article/d...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_with_the_Holy_Spirit

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#55

Post by herewulf »

cpfohl wrote: post #32
Atotalnoob wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion provides certain benefits in the military. If you are say a Christian, you get assigned time to go to a (hopefully) air conditioned church and relax and recover. Even if it’s short, it can be beneficial to collect yourself in a high stress situation like basic training/boot camp. If you elect not to go to a religious service, you typically have to keep doing whatever you are doing. Atheists or other less org…

Got it, that helps me understand. I am curious how the variety of faith based practices could be handled…I’m super on board with providing a universal spiritual/mental health space regardless of your affiliation. That gets very weird when you start having to account for the variety of schedules and practices. I am pretty sure I disagree on religious orgs having no more rights than a business. I think that seriously u…

> I’m super on board with providing a universal spiritual/mental health space regardless of your affiliation.

This is what was happening in the Army's Chaplain Corps[1] prior to this administration: Seeking to emphasize and credential Chaplains as mental health specialists in an organization with a consistent track record of personnel with pervasive mental health problems.

It seems that has all been scrapped and we're going to fix mental health problems with "good ol' religion".

[1]: I can't speak for the other services but probably the same.

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#56

Post by herewulf »

LastTrain wrote: post #15
slg wrote: post #6

It's notable that the original list with the extra 180 religions was from Trump's first term, so this is another example of the doubling down on white Christian identity politics that has come to define Trump's second term. Also one small potentially controversial decision here that I find amusing in a narcissism of small differences kind of way, Mormons aren't considered Christian according to this list.

That is actually quite useful if you are wanting to drive a wedge between LDS and Trump - there goes Utah and eastern Idaho

Those places have never liked Trump, as immoral as he is perceived, but they consistently put their conservatism first when it comes time to vote. I don't see this situation changing any time soon.

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#57

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

throwaway81523 wrote: post #35
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANNX_XiuA78

Heh nothing like what I'd have guessed. There's also this: https://theonion.com/various-deities-still-sorting-through-v...

Emo Phillips is a weird comedian.

Can be quite funny, though.

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#58

Post by herewulf »

tptacek wrote: post #26
uneekname wrote: post #2

They don't recognize atheists anymore? Am I reading that right?

They're not tracking atheists or working to measure and expand chaplaincy services for "atheists" separate from "no religion". The religion list doesn't mean that much. The religious respect requirements for the armed forces are codified in law; the DoD can't alter them.

On the contrary I would expect that the most immediate effect is the impossibility of commissioning chaplains for any of the 180 faiths removed from the list. Good luck with that if you're a chaplain candidate who is an ordained minister of "Other".

No doubt there are other concrete effects that are buried in reams of DoD policy.

However, the message being sent is far clearer. Expect that the goal is to pare down the current list even further in due time.

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#59

Post by halJordan »

mschuster91 wrote: post #3

> The changes were iterated in a May 20, 2026, memorandum issued by the Under Secretary of War and signed by Anthony Tata, under secretary of defense for personnel and readiness of the United States, and obtained by Military.com. FFS there is no such thing as "of war". It's still "of defense" until Congress actually passes a bill. As for the rest of that topic... yeah. Fits the expectations one has these days when th…

Congress permitted them to create monikers, and they made one. It's not a hill to die on, especially because it's cringe to watch you crucify yourself

Re: DoD Officially Drops 180 Faiths from Military's Recognized Religion List

#60

Post by herewulf »

tptacek wrote: post #17
gslepak wrote: post #16

Here's the previous list: https://americanhumanist.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Fait...

Got to love a system that recognizes both Eckankar and "Heathen".

Heathen is yet another term to describe Germanic paganism which has a similar etymology as the Latin originated word "pagan"[1]. It describes the people "of the heath"[2] — the rural folk who were the last to change their beliefs (as opposed to the city folk following the latest trends). English is unique among Germanic languages for preferring non-native vocabulary but the cognate of "heathen" is extant in every other Germanic language to describe pre-Christian belief. Among modern reconstructionists there is no consensus for a term to describe a belief system that never had a name (because prior to Christianity, it didn't need one).

That it is also a Christian pejorative term is irrelevant to the former DoD list.

[1]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/paganus

[2]: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/heathen#English

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