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Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

mashable.com

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Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#41

Post by userbinator »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #32
zootboy wrote: post #6

And this is why "mandatory app to configure" is an instant dealbreaker for me for any piece of hardware. Don't buy crap like this. Force companies to be better.

> And this is why "mandatory app to configure" is a dealbreaker More and more IP cameras can't be set up without a phone app. TP-Link's Tapo line is really bad about it. Even some Reolink cameras can't be setup on their own. Now that high quality, affordable brands like Dahua got banned (w/o evidence), there's less pressure on the survivors to not be awful.

More and more IP cameras can't be set up without a phone app.

More evidence that this isn't about cost at all, but control. Fortunately, the good old-fashioned "dumb" ones that just have a tiny web server to serve their configuration and viewing UI still exist, seemingly at both the ultra-cheap (unbranded/random brand ones from China based on a reference design, built by companies with no desire to host anything) and ultra-expensive (Axis, Bosch, etc.) ends of the market; the middle is entirely filled with the "smart" "cloud" crap.

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#42

Post by yonatan8070 »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #31

the Motorola MotoSync+ app is required to set up all new compatible WiFi routers released by Motorola AFAIK, more Motorola routers are installed by cable ISPs than anywhere else. Many or most have WiFi. I can't imagine cable installers are futzing with a phone app.

You'd be surprised, at work we recently had a contractor install a new office network (growing startup upgrading from the home grade units we had before), they recommended HP Aruba Instant On, and the guy did all the setup on his phone with their app.

Now that it's my network to manage, I have to say that while it's a huge upgrade from the TP-Link Deco units we had before, the cloud management just makes it worse. The web UI is slow, probably because every click requires a round trip from my laptop, to a datacenter somewhere, to the router/switch/AP 5m away from me, back to the datacenter, and back to my laptop.

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#43

Post by zmgsabst »

ssl-3 wrote: post #19
userbinator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to prefer it this way. Strong doubt. What's lower friction, "visit this address in your browser and login to start configuring" vs. "go download this app, open it, possibly log in and register an account, add 'your' device, and only then start to configure it"? Let's also not forget the possible chicken-and-egg situation of needing the Internet to download an app to setup your new router to access the Inter…

You're obviously one of those computer people.

No — regular people use QR codes all the time.

Point your phone at the QR sticker on the router, click open, boom you’re on the config page!

That’s a faster experience, doesn’t require any searching, doesn’t require wondering if you downloaded the right app, doesn’t require you sign up, etc.

Your claim people prefer apps to QR codes is highly doubtful.

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#44

Post by zmgsabst »

jeffbee wrote: post #34
userbinator wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They seem to prefer it this way. Strong doubt. What's lower friction, "visit this address in your browser and login to start configuring" vs. "go download this app, open it, possibly log in and register an account, add 'your' device, and only then start to configure it"? Let's also not forget the possible chicken-and-egg situation of needing the Internet to download an app to setup your new router to access the Inter…

Cloud command and control is obviously a better user experience, and it is much more secure.

There is no way in which opening external control is more secure than local-only control.

What is this FUD?

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#45

Post by post_below »

ssl-3 wrote: post #17
userbinator wrote: post #14

I haven't been in the market for a WiFi router for a long time so I thought all the consumer stuff still used a web server for config. Enterprise stuff is either the same or has a serial port. In any case, it doesn't make sense to require a separate app that they also have to spend resources maintaining when their users will already have a browser they can use, so I suspect the only reason is the app collects usage i…

Regular consumers increasingly use apps to do stuff instead of web browsers. They seem to prefer it this way. And at least for connected devices at home, a dedicated app can have lower friction for initial setup for the "I'm not a computer person" crowd than other alternatives do. (I know, I know. It's terrible. It even feels something like betrayal sometimes. But that's how it be, anyway -- and you and I are powerle…

I'm not sure they prefer it. I think tech companies have been pushing apps as the default solution for a long time and people accept it because they just want to do whatever thing is locked behind the app.

If the default was something else I suspect people would accept that too, especially if it was lower friction.

I'd say typing a few characters into an address bar (or scanning a QR code) is, at the least, not higher friction than downloading an app and creating an account.

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#46

Post by ssl-3 »

zmgsabst wrote: post #43
ssl-3 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're obviously one of those computer people.

No — regular people use QR codes all the time. Point your phone at the QR sticker on the router, click open, boom you’re on the config page! That’s a faster experience, doesn’t require any searching, doesn’t require wondering if you downloaded the right app, doesn’t require you sign up, etc. Your claim people prefer apps to QR codes is highly doubtful.

> Your claim people prefer apps to QR codes

I claimed what?

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#47

Post by jonathanlydall »

userbinator wrote: post #18
ssl-3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regular consumers increasingly use apps to do stuff instead of web browsers. They seem to prefer it this way. And at least for connected devices at home, a dedicated app can have lower friction for initial setup for the "I'm not a computer person" crowd than other alternatives do. (I know, I know. It's terrible. It even feels something like betrayal sometimes. But that's how it be, anyway -- and you and I are powerle…

They seem to prefer it this way. Strong doubt. What's lower friction, "visit this address in your browser and login to start configuring" vs. "go download this app, open it, possibly log in and register an account, add 'your' device, and only then start to configure it"? Let's also not forget the possible chicken-and-egg situation of needing the Internet to download an app to setup your new router to access the Inter…

I’d never defend the lack of web based configuration, but there is an argument to be made that if the app uses Bluetooth to communicate with a router (though I don’t know if that’s true in this case), it is inarguably easier to configure for the average person who is intimidated by having to work with an IP address in any way.

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#48

Post by zmgsabst »

ssl-3 wrote: post #46
zmgsabst wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No — regular people use QR codes all the time. Point your phone at the QR sticker on the router, click open, boom you’re on the config page! That’s a faster experience, doesn’t require any searching, doesn’t require wondering if you downloaded the right app, doesn’t require you sign up, etc. Your claim people prefer apps to QR codes is highly doubtful.

> Your claim people prefer apps to QR codes I claimed what?

You claimed they don’t like browser based flows — of which QR codes are the common low friction, smartphone friendly implementation/entrypoint.

Ie, what normal people use regularly every day.

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#49

Post by hypfer »

sanex wrote: post #24
giancarlostoro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the bright side, maybe someone can get Claude or some other LLM to figure out how to crack it; and perhaps even vibe-code an alternative app. LLMs are great for this, though the more people use it for blackhat style things, the more I fear they will lockdown LLMs which are useful for reversing things that are legacy as heck and abandonware.

I listened to an interview with the guy who nearly cured his dog's cancer with ai and he expressed concern multiple times that going public with the story would cause the labs to cut off the ability.

For reference for other readers, here's the primary source: https://x.com/paul_conyngham/status/2036940410363535823

Also, thanks for mentioning! I wasn't aware of this

Re: Motorola effectively bricked its entire line of WiFi routers without explanation

#50

Post by dotancohen »

binaryturtle wrote: post #16
zootboy wrote: post #6

And this is why "mandatory app to configure" is an instant dealbreaker for me for any piece of hardware. Don't buy crap like this. Force companies to be better.

If it's a "router" and you can't install a OpenWRT on it, then it's an absolute no-brainer to not to buy it.

To whom? How many people who have bought these things ever heard of OpenWRT? How many of those are capable of installing it?

Have you ever considered upgrading your refrigerator? Washing machine? Kettle? A router is a transparent appliance to most people.

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