Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

nbcnews.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

341–350 of 586 posts

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#341

Post by afpx »

slg wrote: post #331
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

I don't like how Americans dismiss their own agency in this all. This is not being forced on us by Israel. A huge and underdiscussed reason why the US and Israel have the relationship they do is because of the roughly 100m American Evangelicals that want it that way. That's also why the GOP is seen as the party more favorable to Israel (not that the Democrats are necessarily adversarial, but they clearly aren't as ag…

That's really interesting. I am an Evangelical, and no one that I know supports Israel. Could it be something else?

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#342

Post by CMay »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. That is poor propaganda.

If you operate with a lens that forces you to ask "how is this Israel's fault?" without ever asking any other question, you're going to end up mostly with answers that are only for entertainment value the same way you would if you asked any LLM a leading question that already assumed a desired answer.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#343

Post by zuzululu »

slg wrote: post #331
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

I don't like how Americans dismiss their own agency in this all. This is not being forced on us by Israel. A huge and underdiscussed reason why the US and Israel have the relationship they do is because of the roughly 100m American Evangelicals that want it that way. That's also why the GOP is seen as the party more favorable to Israel (not that the Democrats are necessarily adversarial, but they clearly aren't as ag…

I think there's parallel valid points on all sides. GOP is also split over Israel. Young Republicans/conservatives do not care at all to continue the relationship. There's those evangelicals that also do not represent Americans who increasingly question and neutral/negative towards US-Israel relationship.

I do wonder how long this can continue. American people should have the final say on which relationships are beneficial to them not special interest groups. The fatigue is very real and palpable and its growing to be an ugly force that is also being exploited by extremists.

This trend change in how American youth view Israel is also a big reason why so many social media platforms are exchanging hands, ex. TikTok by blaming some other scary foe like Russia or China. These are mere attempts to buy time at the inevitable in that America is going their own way and it will be ultimately the American people that will decide.

Look at what's happening in South Korea right now. Election fraud has triggered both the left and the right. The usual opportunists and politicians tried to exploit the situation and they were rejected. The fatigue from the people and the current arrangement is turning into visible anger in countries which face serious structural problems due to the huge wealth gap parity and falling birth rates.

One need not look far at places like Quebec or Paris or Belgium to see exactly where this is headed for people who have nothing to do with Israel but are associated by guilt.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#344

Post by Georgelemental »

slg wrote: post #331
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

I don't like how Americans dismiss their own agency in this all. This is not being forced on us by Israel. A huge and underdiscussed reason why the US and Israel have the relationship they do is because of the roughly 100m American Evangelicals that want it that way. That's also why the GOP is seen as the party more favorable to Israel (not that the Democrats are necessarily adversarial, but they clearly aren't as ag…

OP didn't say it was being forced! American politicians are 100% to blame, Israel just acting in its own interest as it should

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#345

Post by whyage »

CMay wrote: post #342
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. That is poor propaganda. If you operate with a lens that forces you to ask "how is this Israel's fault?" without ever asking any other question, you're going to end up mostly with answers that are only for entertainment value the same way you would if you asked any LLM a leading question that already assumed a desired answer.

> The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding.

This is propaganda as well, only more agreeable to you.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#346

Post by iugtmkbdfil834 »

QQ00 wrote: post #320
iugtmkbdfil834 wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument is interesting, because it happens to repeat administration's assertions. It also is interesting, because the argument itself attempts make peace with the idea that wiping out central command & leadership did not put US in a more favorable position in general. I guess I will just point out that 'weaker than ever' is doing a lot of work here without being specific on what strength means here. I don't want…

it's actually weaker than before, and these who left are the kind that power hungry with no class or protocols of the leadership(that died), bunch of power hungry, blood thirsty mid level leaders who understand that they cannot allow the regime to change, at all cost, they even forced the son of the previous leader to take the reign (which in reality just a public face). they are actually more brutal and the chances…

So... they now have distributed command and are more willing to employ force. Note that all of that was known before the attack so the attack on Iran was a spectacular gamble, which failed. Worse, it undermined strategic interests of US.

Does that actually strike as weaker? It does not sound that way to me.

edit: Oh, somehow I forgot: Iran did not actually carry out some of their bigger threats ( internet cables and so on ). So, yeah, Iran may be weaker in terms of -- hmm, whats the proper phrase here -- conventional war units, but it now has outsized leverage compared to what it had before the attack AND, which it makes it worse even from pure propaganda perspective, a moral claim for self-defense.

Yeah, so much weaker.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#347

Post by Georgelemental »

CMay wrote: post #342
throwaway27448 wrote: post #191

I don't think I've ever seen in all of my wide understanding of history, such a tiny state successfully make an empire its vassal. Truly an astounding feat. It would be highly entertaining if it didn't bode poorly for humanity.

The US is neither a vassal of Israel nor simply doing its bidding. That is poor propaganda. If you operate with a lens that forces you to ask "how is this Israel's fault?" without ever asking any other question, you're going to end up mostly with answers that are only for entertainment value the same way you would if you asked any LLM a leading question that already assumed a desired answer.

It's not Israel's "fault" that American leaders are slavishly loyal to them. Israel is just putting their country first, as is their duty. It's 100% on American politicians for failing in their duty to put America first

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#348

Post by tbugrara »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #291
parthdesai wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you’ve proof for that? On the other hand, AIPAC is out there for anyone to see

> Do you’ve proof for that? Yes, it's why we require foreign agents to register [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Agents_Registration_Ac...

Yet AIPAC does not need to register.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#350

Post by fakedang »

m-ee wrote: post #332
solenoid0937 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In part it's because they have the best intelligence apparatus in the world. I'm very impressed at how far above their weight they're punching.

The best intelligence apparatus in the world missed the Oct 7 planning which Egyptian intelligence noticed, told the Israelis about directly, and still went ignored?

This is what I ask everyone who thinks October 7 was an attack launched by Hamas of its own volition.

Anyone who's been to and seen the Gaza border knows how impossible it is to cross - unless of course there was some inside permittance.

Post reply on HN