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Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

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Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#221

Post by varjag »

QQ00 wrote: post #214
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that's a win for him since the outcome was a stronger Iran.

more like weaker iran than ever, now that the central command are gone, no leader at the top and no high level generals, the power at the hand of mid level thugs of the IRGC.

Certain figures are gone but political and military organization appears mostly intact. Iran also emerged as potent enough to deliver stalemate to combined force of CENTCOM and Israel. Its standing certainly had improved next to the lows after decimation of its proxies and the fall of client regime in Syria.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#222

Post by woodruffw »

basilgohar wrote: post #84
jfiejfkdjs wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a non-sequitur. It's an "American" organization whose sole purpose is to lobby the US government on behalf of the interests of a foreign government. It should register as a foreign agent as should all its employees because that's exactly how they behave and why they exist.

I agree that AIPAC may qualify as a foreign agent. But in that case, there are ~hundreds of domestic foreign lobby nonprofits in the US that are effectively unregistered foreign agents; just about every ethnic group in the US has one.

(More generally, I think the idea of a "foreign agent" that isn't actively and clearly sabotaging a country is a jingoistic boogeyman. But we should avoid the appearance of special pleading if we're going to call AIPAC one.)

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#223

Post by sanderjd »

YZF wrote: post #79
Animats wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The designation stems from concerns within the Pentagon that Israel is making a particular effort to surveil top U.S. officials to get information on the Trump administration’s internal deliberations and decision-making on the conflicts in the Middle East, the officials said." So Israel wants to know what Trump is going to do next.

Don't we all.

Seems like he's the only one that doesn't feel any need to think about this question.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#224

Post by jameshilliard »

orwin wrote: post #187
Cyph0n wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so now none of the protesters were gunned down in the streets? How convenient. > As many as 30,000 people could have been killed in the streets of Iran on Jan. 8 and 9 alone, two senior officials of the country’s Ministry of Health told TIME—indicating a dramatic surge in the death toll. https://time.com/7357635/more-than-30000-killed-in-iran-say-... Imagine infiltrating the Iranian surveillance camera network an…

Yeah, the 30k number is hogwash, but HR NGOs and OSINT volunteers worked up 7k dead in protest over 50 days, including 200 police/military forces, and a maximum of 18k death if you count the fights against separatist/freedom fighter/terrorists (depending on who you are aligned with, choose the description you like more)

> the 30k number is hogwash

30k is one estimate of actual deaths, it's expected to be higher than any verified number of deaths.

Most estimates fall into the range of 20k to 40k from my understanding so 30k is certainly plausible.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#225

Post by swat535 »

anukin wrote: post #194
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that's a win for him since the outcome was a stronger Iran.

Stronger how? The central command is gone.

I'm Iranian, now living in the west. Allow me to chime in..

So Iran doesn't have a central command, they've developed a mosaic system where the 30+ chains operate autonomously. It is also multi-layered (IRGC, Artesh, Basij, etc).

The multi-layered design was developed after the revolution, when they realized that the regime should be protected in case of internal mutiny.

IRGC specifically was put in place to protect the regime and it only responds to the Supreme Leader. Neither the president or the parliament control it.

The mosaic system was started few years back after the assassination of Qasem Soleimani (though it possibly dates further, I can't confirm this).

The biggest mistake US & Israel did was underestimating Iran, specifically their defensive capabilities. They've prepared for this war for 47 years, _literally_ praying for it. You had Abbas Araghchi on TV literally inviting American army into Iran for a ground invasion.

What the West doesn't understand is that you can't really dismantle an ideology by dropping bombs on civilians. It didn't work in Afghanistan, it didn't work in IRAQ and it's not working with IRAN.

The Shia martyrdom culture is misunderstood. I was not being hyperbolic when I said they have been praying for this war. Their motto is "Every day in Ashura, every land is Karbala".

Anyway, I'll land it here for now.

- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashura - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karbala

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#226

Post by Spooky23 »

TurdF3rguson wrote: post #182
thisislife2 wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both Netanyahu and Trump have a vested interest in promoting the idea of how much influence Israel has over US foreign policy. For Netanyahu, the propaganda that he manipulated Trump into waging a war against Iran boosts his political image with some Israelis. (And it is near election season in Israel).

I don't see how that's a win for him since the outcome was a stronger Iran.

It’s not a win for Israel. It’s a win for him. The stronger Iran is, the more you need him.

Netanyahu is Trump like - his core constituency is whack job Americans and the Israelis whom they firehose money at.

The commentators and idiots running the government miss the forest for the trees. Iran is radically stronger than they were, even with the destruction rained down. The entire American military supremacy story is toast. The strategy of them and North Korea with respect to ballistic missiles and drones works.

It’s Vietnam with missiles and drone. The US slaughtered hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese, “never lost a battle”, yet got whooped.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#227

Post by JumpCrisscross »

QQ00 wrote: post #214
TurdF3rguson wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how that's a win for him since the outcome was a stronger Iran.

more like weaker iran than ever, now that the central command are gone, no leader at the top and no high level generals, the power at the hand of mid level thugs of the IRGC.

> no leader at the top and no high level generals, the power at the hand of mid level thugs of the IRGC

One could argue a junta makes for a stronger Iran than the previous gerontocratic autocracy. Of course, we don't know. And I think it's silly to say Iran is stronger today than it was at the start of the war. But relative to America? At least in the region, I'd say one could argue that sensibly.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#228

Post by elictronic »

delecti wrote: post #48
basilgohar wrote: post #31

"Government suddenly and confusingly starts acting accordingly to what everyone's already know for a long time." This is really quite scary when you think about it. Why now all of a sudden?

Maybe this is a bit glib, but it's because attacking Iran (which everyone knew was a bad idea but which presumably seemed useful as a distraction) turned out to be a bad idea. So the administration is taking it out on Israel, who wanted us to do it.

Israel keeps actively going against US goals. The beginning of the conflict generally had both sides in general agreement. The moment Israel killed the US’s intended replacement, and now continues promoting conflict while the US admin is pushing hard for a peace deal is showing the cracks

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#229

Post by JumpCrisscross »

elictronic wrote: post #228
delecti wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is a bit glib, but it's because attacking Iran (which everyone knew was a bad idea but which presumably seemed useful as a distraction) turned out to be a bad idea. So the administration is taking it out on Israel, who wanted us to do it.

Israel keeps actively going against US goals. The beginning of the conflict generally had both sides in general agreement. The moment Israel killed the US’s intended replacement, and now continues promoting conflict while the US admin is pushing hard for a peace deal is showing the cracks

> The moment Israel killed the US’s intended replacement

The plan was fucked from conception. Not having a strategy for safeguarding the Strait made virtually any strategy that required persisting after decapitation half baked.

Re: Pentagon raised threat of Israeli spying on U.S. to highest level, sources say

#230

Post by JumpCrisscross »

ada1981 wrote: post #150

Removing all US financial support for Israel and supporting sanctions and ICJ actions is the only way forward.

> Removing all US financial support for Israel and supporting sanctions and ICJ actions is the only way forward

Or at least starting with ceasing financial aid to Israel. If they want our weapons, they should have to pay for them. This has broad, bipartisan support in a way sanctioning Israel doesn't yet.

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