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Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

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Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#41

Post by complianceowll »

eszed wrote: post #37
complianceowll wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to engage in whataboutism, but every major power or even near-peer power has engaged in those types of atrocities. We like to talk about international law, but anyone who has paid attention understands that the only international law that exists is power. I wish it were different, but the language they spoke back then was conquest, and every nation and ethnicity spoke that language, and embraced it. And they were…

You're right, of course, but the post-War consensus in which (most) major powers (mostly) acknowledged international law and (mostly) restricted themselves to economic, rather than military, competition was... nice. It took the two most destructive wars in history, back-to-back, to reach that state of (imperfect, relative) peace, and I'm sorry to see it ending.

Fair point and certainly a rarity in world history.

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#42

Post by zoobaloo »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #38
throw0101c wrote: post #10

The book Paris, 1200 is pretty good read for anyone interested in 'point in time' history: > Paris in 1200 was a city in transition. The great cathedral of Notre Dame was halfway through its construction and walls were being built to enclose the new, larger limits of the city. Pope Innocent III ordered all French churches closed to punish King Philip Augustus for his remarriage; the king himself negotiated an unprece…

Two other books in that vein that I really liked: 1. A World Lit Only by Fire — William Manchester 2. One Summer: America, 1927 — Bill Bryson

> A World Lit Only by Fire

I loved this book in my high school AP Euro class. I revisited it much later in my studies, and was dismayed to realize how lacking in proper research and citation it was. Manchester makes numerous bold claims without mentioning resources, many of which were directly contradicted by the more thoroughly-established works I was then reading. I had learned a lot of "facts" that turned out to be inaccurate, imprecise, or speculative.

I'll let others with more knowledge correct me, but my overall impression is that he was pushing sensational narratives rather than advancing historical knowledge.

> One Summer: America

I haven't heard of this and will take a look. Thanks for the recommendation.

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#43

Post by TFNA »

complianceowll wrote: post #40
TFNA wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly not every people spoke the language of conquest. The high mountain ranges of the world are populated by peoples who escaped the conquering activity of their neighbors by moving upsteam into less and less easily cultivable terrain, land no one else wanted.

I never said "every people". I said "every major power or even near-peer power". Isolated mountain villages and their people do not fall into the categories I referenced: (1) every major power; (2) near-peer power.

Fine. But you then wrote “the language they spoke back then was conquest, and every nation and ethnicity spoke that language, and embraced it”, which seemed like a pretty umbrella description, hence why I replied with what I did.

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#44

Post by bluebarbet »

damnitbuilds wrote: post #8

"Twenty centuries are stacked in 4 meters (13 feet) of earth — or about the height of two-and-a-half Napoleon Bonapartes standing on top of one another." Way to get history wrong in your story about history.

The quip suggests he was 1.6 m tall. The best guess is in fact 1.68 m (5 ft 6 in), so it's not that far off.

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#45

Post by contingencies »

arethuza wrote: post #11
vasco wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's surprising that they're not doing that systematically around the building, but then again I guess that applies to a large part of the city as well. In some places in Italy, Greece, Malta, probably others I don't know, people always joke that you shouldn't try to ever do any renovations lest you end up finding something and lose your house. Some places you're almost guaranteed to find stuff if you just dig once…

There is a wonderful museum it the Italian city of Lecce that started when someone went to fix some plumbing in their house and ended up finding so much amazing historical stuff that they ended up opening the house as a museum: https://www.museofaggiano.it/en/home/ And that's just one house in one city in one country! Edit: I strongly recommend the museum, Lecce and indeed all of Puglia!

Thanks for the recommendation. What else would you highlight in Puglia for food/nature/history?

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#46

Post by complianceowll »

TFNA wrote: post #43
complianceowll wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said "every people". I said "every major power or even near-peer power". Isolated mountain villages and their people do not fall into the categories I referenced: (1) every major power; (2) near-peer power.

Fine. But you then wrote “the language they spoke back then was conquest, and every nation and ethnicity spoke that language, and embraced it”, which seemed like a pretty umbrella description, hence why I replied with what I did.

Fair point - I could totally see that now. It's Friday Eve so we'll leave it at that. Cheers to a good weekend, friend. This one's on me ;)

Tried pasting a beer ASCII art but didn't work

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#47

Post by arethuza »

contingencies wrote: post #45
arethuza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a wonderful museum it the Italian city of Lecce that started when someone went to fix some plumbing in their house and ended up finding so much amazing historical stuff that they ended up opening the house as a museum: https://www.museofaggiano.it/en/home/ And that's just one house in one city in one country! Edit: I strongly recommend the museum, Lecce and indeed all of Puglia!

Thanks for the recommendation. What else would you highlight in Puglia for food/nature/history?

The whole region is awesome for food and wine - we did a walk (over few days) from Santa Maria di Leuca to Otranto - sometimes along the coast and sometimes in paths through the lovely countryside. We started and ended that trip in Lecce - staying in a few agriturismos along the way, all of which had sublime food.

We've also been to Bari as well - which has a lovely old town as does Otranto - where the town centre is basically one large fortress.

One very pleasant surprise we had was using the Frecciarossa express train - we had two business class seats for a journey of a couple of hours and it was less than 50 euros and it was extremely comfortable!

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#48

Post by pezezin »

cubefox wrote: post #20
Zardoz84 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the movie was good. And the 8-bit era game was very popular.

I didn't know there was a game. The movie is great, but it focuses on the crime plot and unfortunately leaves most of the historical/philosophical/linguistic meat out, which is not surprising when you compress a 500 page book into a 100 page screenplay. I guess an adventure game would actually be more suitable for incorporating some of the things the film left out.

The game is called La Abadía del Crimen and as far as I know was only released in Spain and never translated to any other language, so even though it is a cult classic in Spain, it is pretty much unknown outside.

Re: Under Notre Dame, a 'dig of the century' unearths 1,700 years of history

#50

Post by cubefox »

pezezin wrote: post #48
cubefox wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know there was a game. The movie is great, but it focuses on the crime plot and unfortunately leaves most of the historical/philosophical/linguistic meat out, which is not surprising when you compress a 500 page book into a 100 page screenplay. I guess an adventure game would actually be more suitable for incorporating some of the things the film left out.

The game is called La Abadía del Crimen and as far as I know was only released in Spain and never translated to any other language, so even though it is a cult classic in Spain, it is pretty much unknown outside.

Apparently there is a remake which was also translated into a few other languages:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/474030/The_Abbey_of_Crime...

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