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Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

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Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#101

Post by bjourne »

Pay08 wrote: post #27
roenxi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea and probably not, but it is a bit more complex than that. There isn't any particular rule saying that the only functional democratic model is multi-party democracy. One could imagine a successful democratic model with one party allowing diverse internal factions, for example. It is really hard to get a read on China, but their success raises some interesting questions of how exactly their internal part…

From what I've read (and this may very well be outdated), Singapore is generally democratic, but the PAP does such a good job of running the country that people don't vote for other parties.

PAP has exploited Singapore's strict libel laws to bankrupt opposition parties by suing for defamation. It is not so difficult to retain power when the opposition has no money for campaigning.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#102

Post by ggm »

watwut wrote: post #76
ggm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely harmless needs contextualising. In gross sense, no: damage to property is not harmless, it has consequences, costs. In personal safety terms sure tagging isn't mugging. If you're down Proudhon's "all property is theft" then graffiti is a kind of tragedy of the commons. Go ahead. Graffiti the Uffitzi, Nelson's column, the Plaka. Stick it to the man!

My point was that there is nothing to fear of. And yes, I said there that they are jerks to owner. Which they are. But, it is not putting anyone in any kind of danger and there is no reason to be scared. > If you're down Proudhon's "all property is theft" then graffiti is a kind of tragedy of the commons. Go ahead. Graffiti the Uffitzi, Nelson's column, the Plaka. Stick it to the man! I honestly don't get what are yo…

An immense amount of graffiti in Europe is overtly political. And in south America. I know from personal experience. Crete is a hotbed of radicalism and has a massive amount of antizionist graffiti. South America has anti junta statements and support for shining path.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#103

Post by zuzululu »

I love Lee Kuan Yew and his story. He's revered not just in the West but East as well. Obviously people can't see past his style but they'll never tell you it wasn't effective.

There is a lot to learn from his philosophy and there used to be countries that were on a similar track that also saw similar transformation from a backwater agrarian society deciding from marxism to market economy.

His legacy speaks for itself and I love how he can make Western journalists completely shut up, a true Cambridge law student, he could speak English effectively out of all non-Western leaders.

The only problem is that he lost the war on the hot scorching weather, something that really takes a way from enjoying the country. If Singapore had cooler weather, it would've been completely flooded with all the disillusioned Westerners from democratic countries.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#104

Post by zuzululu »

jdw64 wrote: post #33

Lee Kuan Yew is praised by Western academia because of 'benevolent authoritarianism' — in other words, the idea that a small elite should rule over the workers. In fact, his policies were authoritarian and dictatorial. Despite Singapore's geographical advantages, Lee's achievement in transforming it into a great financial hub is certainly a testament to his capability. However, when you consider his track record 'Ope…

Lee Kuan Yew is heavily praised in Korea especially and the rest of Asia so I do not know how you came to generating your reply that he is a Western academic orientalist object comes from, that is certainly far from reality.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#105

Post by freewestpapua »

teleforce wrote: post #58
freewestpapua wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The people who originally settled in the Malay Archipelago several thousands years ago were successful maritime explorers. That comment upset me as a Melanesian. I'm sorry, but I need to challenge the above statement as it is factually incorrect. What you are claiming is widely spread in a politicized way in Malaysia and Indonesia, and in a similar but different context in Thailand and Phillipines. Firstly, I'm sur…

Naturally they inter-married, the first wave from out of Africa people (e.g Perak man) and the second wave from the Taiwan diaspora [1]. This as you probably know happened over many thousands of years. The word one to ten in most Austronesian countries from Madagascar to Hawaii, spanning more than 17,000 km or 10,000 miles (about half of earth's perimeter of 40,000 km). These countries main languages including Malaga…

> Naturally they inter-married,

Earlier you claimed 'originally settled by Malays' now you're saying Malays inter-married with the actual indigenous population. That's like saying European Americans inter-married with actual native population and therefore European Americans are now the first peoples in America. I'm unsure if it is worth discussing further with someone that would manipulate facts in this way.

I'll also ask you to google about Y-haplogroup and MT-haplogroup statistics to see how it shows the disappearance of male Melanesian contribution to the population in Phillipines, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand. Countries like Malaysia and Indonesia had official policies even going on today where indigenous Melanesian women were targeted to be impregnated by settler 'Malay Muslim' men. For example:

https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nation/2006/06/27/incentives... 'Kelantan will offer RM10,000 to each Muslim preacher who marries an orang asli woman and naturally converts her'

I noticed you refused to address what is happening in West Papua.

Sadly, I think our conversation can't really continue effectively since you're starting to bring in unrelated topics like Spain and then you started talking about 'land grab by Chinese immigrants in Singapore' which is unrelated to the claims you originally made. Again, I sought to correct your statement claiming 'originally settled by Malays' which I notice you've now softened to 'Malays intermarried with the actual indigenous people'. I think that's the extent of the possible communication with you.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#106

Post by zuzululu »

zorked wrote: post #9
seanlinmt wrote: post #7

Singapore is a strange outlier among successful democratic countries. There's always stories that are untold. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chin_Siong?wprov=sfla1 Operation Spectrum untracing the conspiracy' https://share.google/2mRpZk3RGaYUKCRXS

"He was one of the founders of the governing People's Action Party (PAP), which has governed the country continuously since independence" Very democratic country.

Did you know Philippines adopted American style democracy and were much more wealthier than Singapore and other Asian countries?

How do you think Philiippines compare now to Singapore as a result of its "democracy" ?

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#107

Post by zuzululu »

hirako2000 wrote: post #42
zorked wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He was one of the founders of the governing People's Action Party (PAP), which has governed the country continuously since independence" Very democratic country.

Competitively authoritarian, so, democratic. If Singapore isn't a democracy then the U.S is a dictature.

Merit remains the foundation of its ruling style, the other, whatever suits the mood of the ruling power behind democratic labels and institutions that ultimately have violated its own constitution.

People throw out the word democracy like they know what it is.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#108

Post by mc32 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #66
ggm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is a bitter pill to swallow for many because a more liberal sense of multiculturalism in AU and UK allowed enclaves to emerge which have now become intensely divisive where a less open "multiculturalism but conform to our norms" might have avoided.

Singapore is an enclave that emerged because of multiculturalism in Malaya caused by mass immigration from China, actually.

In the 60s the Chinese diaspora in SEAsia experienced violence by locals who didn’t like the success of the Chinese. This happened mostly in Indonesia Burma and Malaysia and not so much in the Philippine islands.

Malaysia in particular instituted pretty harsh laws to make Chinese suppress their Chinese identity and also curtailed their economic potential by implementing in practice expropriation and barring the Chinese from certain sectors of the economy.

So it emerged not because of multiculturalism but because they were being virtually locked out of the Malaysian economy.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#109

Post by [deleted] »

teleforce wrote: post #48
wahern wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time the Europeans arrived Singapore had long since declined: > However, by the time the Portuguese arrived in the early 16th century, Singapura had already become "great ruins" according to Alfonso de Albuquerque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore How far back and how much context is required for a simple narrative to not constitute lying? And for a narrative about national origin, is it not…

>Aboriginal peoples (pre-history "colonizers") What nonsense, colonizers do not live and settle there for thousand of years. Would you called majority Japanese now a colonizers since the originally come from Korea/China and before them they were people there? >Singapura had already become "great ruins" according to Alfonso de Albuquerque. Albuquerque was the first European colonial who conquered Malacca in the early…

[deleted]

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#110

Post by RivieraKid »

I've recently went into a rabbit hole of learning about Singapore. It's fascinating that you can transform a developing country into a country that's almost on the level of Switzerland in 60 years. I wonder what's the responsibility of various factors behind their success. Is it mainly the people? Strategic location? Great governance and policies?
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