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Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

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Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#21
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He was one of the founders of the governing People's Action Party (PAP), which has governed the country continuously since independence" Very democratic country.

I have no idea and probably not, but it is a bit more complex than that. There isn't any particular rule saying that the only functional democratic model is multi-party democracy. One could imagine a successful democratic model with one party allowing diverse internal factions, for example. It is really hard to get a read on China, but their success raises some interesting questions of how exactly their internal part…

been in China for decades, benevolent dictatorships allow long term planning, elections every 4 years favor short term decisions, populism and waste a huge percentage of time in after elections and pre-elections

China and Singapore showed democracy is not necessarily the most productive way to run a country

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#22
post #9

Singapore is a strange outlier among successful democratic countries. There's always stories that are untold. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chin_Siong?wprov=sfla1 Operation Spectrum untracing the conspiracy' https://share.google/2mRpZk3RGaYUKCRXS

"He was one of the founders of the governing People's Action Party (PAP), which has governed the country continuously since independence" Very democratic country.

As the article points out, Lee Kuan Yew did not believe that democracy meant that his (or any other party in power) should also help opposition parties politically thrive. While such political philosophies can be abused by authoritarians (and Lee was an authoritarian) in a democracy, I do see the wisdom in it. For example, Nehru - India's first Prime Minister - invited even some opposition leaders into his Cabinet as his party got an absolute majority in the first election post-independence. That was a rare departure from the convention of a Parliamentary Democracy, where only members from the ruling party or coalition form the Cabinet. Nehru however wanted to promote democratic values in India and since his party didn't really have an opposition, he invited some into the Cabinet to ensure their voice would have prominence in the media and the public. But he later abandoned this practise because the political ideological differences made this untenable in practise.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#24

Singapore is a strange outlier among successful democratic countries. There's always stories that are untold. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chin_Siong?wprov=sfla1 Operation Spectrum untracing the conspiracy' https://share.google/2mRpZk3RGaYUKCRXS

It's not really a proper democracy, the same party has ruled since the founding of the country. There are severe restrictions on speech, assembly, press and important legal and political barriers for the opposition parties. It is very easy to land in front of a tribunal for defamation or similar for expressing dissent or accusing the government of corruption. The truth is that Singapore has been lucky that Lee Kuan Y…

Trump is testing the limits of USA democracy every day, just from the top of my mind: top lieutenants worth 5%+ ownership in Thether holding company, Ivanka's husband with the Saudis, Ivanka herself in the ONU, shameless plugs of crypto tokens and cards in the podium after elections, pardons for criminals

democracy failed America

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#25
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea and probably not, but it is a bit more complex than that. There isn't any particular rule saying that the only functional democratic model is multi-party democracy. One could imagine a successful democratic model with one party allowing diverse internal factions, for example. It is really hard to get a read on China, but their success raises some interesting questions of how exactly their internal part…

been in China for decades, benevolent dictatorships allow long term planning, elections every 4 years favor short term decisions, populism and waste a huge percentage of time in after elections and pre-elections China and Singapore showed democracy is not necessarily the most productive way to run a country

A country shouldn't be a factory. It doesn't need to be "productive".

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#26
post #5
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore, like other ex-Colonies in SEAsia prove that having been a colony is not an excuse for not doing well. HK, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea were heavily colonized yet after emerging as independent states were able to overcome difficulties, educate their people, take what they learned from their colonizers and have become leading economies of the world. Governance is more important than one’s history when it c…

Absolutely agree. There's a lot of "yes, but.." in this for me, but the simple economics are pretty clear: post colonial asian states like this do fantastically well. Cost of housing in HK is going to be an embuggerance if they don't fix that, it may bifurcate into a more strong over/underclass imbalance. Taiwan is amazing but has thinner underpinnings now the US has demanded chip manufacturing moves to continental U…

[flagged]

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#27
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He was one of the founders of the governing People's Action Party (PAP), which has governed the country continuously since independence" Very democratic country.

I have no idea and probably not, but it is a bit more complex than that. There isn't any particular rule saying that the only functional democratic model is multi-party democracy. One could imagine a successful democratic model with one party allowing diverse internal factions, for example. It is really hard to get a read on China, but their success raises some interesting questions of how exactly their internal part…

From what I've read (and this may very well be outdated), Singapore is generally democratic, but the PAP does such a good job of running the country that people don't vote for other parties.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#29
post #14
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh, you're right. It's just a bugbear for me, tagging and social cohesion decline feels like a parallel, but it may be my projection. I'm in Crete right now and it's decaying beauty, no money for streetscape fixes, bad pavements and unending dissatisfaction written all over the marble walls. I may be displaying my age. Feeling safe equates to being on the street, and unafraid. The tagging isn't the problem the social…

In some places, graffiti means "gang activity" as local gangs tag their turf. If you are from such place, then it kinda makes sense to be afraid of graffity. But where I am from, there are two kinds of graffity: - Cool elaborate pictures, usually in "legal zones" walls city dedicated to it. They take time to create, hence preference for legal place and are made by artists. - Less cool stuff created by skinny "edgy" t…

I don’t understand why people just tolerate graffiti. It’s ugly and makes buildings look worse. Aesthetics matter.

Nothing more irritating that having your apartment building get a fresh coat of paint, look great, and then someone writing scribble tags all over it.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#30

>Stamford Raffles stands – according to the plaque attached to the plinth – on the ‘historic site’ where he first landed as an agent of the British East India Company on 28 January 1819 and, thereafter, ‘with genius and perception changed the destiny of Singapore from an obscure fishing village to a great seaport and modern metropolis’. This is one of the greatest lies ever told, that Singapore was an obscure fishing…

By the time the Europeans arrived Singapore had long since declined:

> However, by the time the Portuguese arrived in the early 16th century, Singapura had already become "great ruins" according to Alfonso de Albuquerque.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore

How far back and how much context is required for a simple narrative to not constitute lying? And for a narrative about national origin, is it not also misleading to insinuate that successive settlements and polities constitute a singular, shared history?

And Europeans were not the first colonial powers to land on and assert control over the peninsula. In fact, the incumbent Muslim powers the Europeans encountered had colonized the peninsula only a couple of centuries beforehand. Aboriginal peoples (pre-history "colonizers") still live in Malaysia, and they're still as isolated and impoverished by the state as they were before Europeans arrived. Malaysia even has its own Plymouth Rock-like monument (on the coast somewhere near Malacca, IIRC), and it's not where Europeans first stepped ashore. And it seems a little odd to presume Singaporeans would identify with the political and social history of their Malay and aboriginal predecessors when Singapore, a majority Chinese community, was kicked out of Malaysia precisely because of racist and xenophobic sentiments of many Malays.

The racial politics of Malaysia and Singapore are at least as complicated as in the US if not more so. I count South Africa and Malaysia as the two countries where racial politics are not only as complicated, but open and explicit as in the US, and like the US the relationship between European colonizers and the "native" groups constitutes only a portion of that complexity. Many other countries have similarly diverse groups, but usually one group is unchallenged in its power and there's very little open discourse about the subject. But contemporary anti-colonial rhetoric whitewashes (figuratively and literally) all of this.

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