Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

mouseless.click

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 257 posts

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#91

Post by philistine »

mikestew wrote: post #51
varun_ch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right that lots of Windows apps were designed with Keyboard only workflows in mind. It’s a shame that MacOS has so many points where if you don’t have a mouse you’re out of luck. There is one major improvement you can do on Mac, at least for menus: https://varun.ch/posts/macos-keyboard/

Like the linked article says, every time I set up a new Mac, I’m annoyed that this isn’t the default.

I get that this might annoy you, but there is a direct trace all the way back to the original Mac in 1984 that required a mouse. As time went on and the two other OSes we still have gained mouse support (Windows, Linux) from their keyboard roots, they brought forward their ethos of keyboard navigation. Mac OS resolutely stayed attached to its mouse only roots.

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#92

Post by qweqwe14 »

andix wrote: post #88
qweqwe14 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why they are not popular at all and only a few manufacturers build them. Because they are ugly, just like ThinkPads that include them.

I couldn't care less how ugly my keyboard is.

Sure, but normal people care about aesthetics, and unsurprisingly big corporations cater to that.

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#93

Post by reaperducer »

mikestew wrote: post #51
varun_ch wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right that lots of Windows apps were designed with Keyboard only workflows in mind. It’s a shame that MacOS has so many points where if you don’t have a mouse you’re out of luck. There is one major improvement you can do on Mac, at least for menus: https://varun.ch/posts/macos-keyboard/

Like the linked article says, every time I set up a new Mac, I’m annoyed that this isn’t the default.

I’m annoyed that this isn’t the default.

I really feel like this used to be the default. That's how I always did it in macOS going back to the early 2000's.

Only in the last two versions or so did I notice it was no longer the default. I'm glad to see here that I can now re-enable it.

Edit: I see that I do have it enabled. But for some reason there are a lot of programs where it doesn't seem to work anymore, no matter what the settings. Off the top of my head: Half the Adobe programs I use for work.

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#94

Post by angiolillo »

CalRobert wrote: post #3

Wow, as cool as this is, it's kind of a shame that we need to say "use coords to show where the mouse should click" instead of designing interfaces that keep pointing-device-free users in mind.

> designing interfaces that keep pointing-device-free users in mind.

Agreed. Using keyboard keys to emulate a mouse cursor seems like it ought to be a last resort for graphical applications that lack proper accessibility affordances.

Contrast that with command palettes, accessibility controls, syntax tree navigation, and other approaches that rely on the names, content, and document structure that users already know rather than a special mode that displays two letter codes that must be read each time or memorized. Many of these other approaches also allow users to activate buttons, menu items, and links that are outside the current viewport or hidden in menus which reduces the overall number of "clicks" required to perform those actions. The downside is that they can take longer to type than a two-letter code. Still, my guess is that for most people it would be overall more efficient to optimize for cognitive load than pure speed.

(Though in the long run, I suspect that improvements in eye-tracking will lead to hybrid systems that are both lower cognitive load and faster than any of these.)

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#97

Post by officeplant »

qweqwe14 wrote: post #85
andix wrote: post #82

I still have a keyboard with a track point I don't understand why they are not popular at all and only a few manufacturers build them. It doesn't replace a mouse for me, but the track point is between the G H B keys and can be reached without moving the fingers away from the typing position. So it's great for some simple mouse commands.

> I don't understand why they are not popular at all and only a few manufacturers build them. Because they are ugly, just like ThinkPads that include them.

Beauty is in the eye of the chonky laptop holder.

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#98

Post by reaperducer »

dfxm12 wrote: post #80
CalRobert wrote: post #3

Wow, as cool as this is, it's kind of a shame that we need to say "use coords to show where the mouse should click" instead of designing interfaces that keep pointing-device-free users in mind.

I think it's ok that hardware and software are designed with the 99% in mind. After that you probably run into competing interests/trade-offs anyway (a system built for ergonomics probably looks different from a system built for speed).

I think it's ok that hardware and software are designed with the 99% in mind.

That's called mob rule. We don't act like cavemen anymore. We build entire civilizations to prevent that sort of thing. You may have read in a history book once "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal."

The word "all" is important.

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#99

Post by url00 »

NickNaraghi wrote: post #47

If you wanted to go in the other direction, you could achieve more productivity with faster mouse skills. The competitive FPS genre has spawned a bunch of aim training tools[0] to improve muscle memory. [0] https://www.3daimtrainer.com/

As someone who went down the keyboard only blackhole, I've rebounded all the way to mouse maximization. Mice are nice! Another tip that really helped me is embracing good mouse acceleration (i.e. not the Windows or Mac built in garbage). This tool has honestly made using a mouse at least 3x better for me: https://github.com/RawAccelOfficial/rawaccel

Re: Mouseless – keyboard-driven control of macOS/Linux/Windows

#100

Post by deafpolygon »

CalRobert wrote: post #3

Wow, as cool as this is, it's kind of a shame that we need to say "use coords to show where the mouse should click" instead of designing interfaces that keep pointing-device-free users in mind.

I think the controller interfaces for FFXIV is worth a study in this. They designed an interface that is workable for an MMORPG with both mouse and controller (in this case, the controller can act as a proxy for our keyboard).
Post reply on HN