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Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

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Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#61
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time the Europeans arrived Singapore had long since declined: > However, by the time the Portuguese arrived in the early 16th century, Singapura had already become "great ruins" according to Alfonso de Albuquerque. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Singapore How far back and how much context is required for a simple narrative to not constitute lying? And for a narrative about national origin, is it not…

>Aboriginal peoples (pre-history "colonizers") What nonsense, colonizers do not live and settle there for thousand of years. Would you called majority Japanese now a colonizers since the originally come from Korea/China and before them they were people there? >Singapura had already become "great ruins" according to Alfonso de Albuquerque. Albuquerque was the first European colonial who conquered Malacca in the early…

> Would you called majority Japanese now a colonizers since the originally come from Korea/China and before them they were people there?

Depending on context, yes, especially considering that (AFAIU) there still exist identifiable (socially, not just genetically) ethnic groups on the Japanese archipelago who predate that colonization event, and who still experience forms of ostracization typical of such colonization. There'd be no cognitive dissonance for me because I refuse to internalize a definition of colonialism that tacitly presumes European exceptionalism and supremacy through a sort of reverse White Man's Burden logic of moral accountability and historical criticism.

For the same reason, I recognize that groups we (i.e. westernized, globalist, cosmopolitan, what-have-you types) typically call aboriginal in a homogenizing, undifferentiating manner were often colonizers themselves thousands of years ago, displacing other aboriginal groups that may or may not still exist today. There are multiple such groups in Southeast Asia. And the first such modern human aboriginal group may have colonized an area occupied by pre-modern, archaic humans. (Or possibly vice versa!)

Buying into the logic of modern anti-colonialism critical theory is not required to appreciate and criticize the harms European colonization inflicted and continues to inflict. But rejecting that logic might be a prerequisite to recognizing and appreciating the exact same dynamics and harms that played out and still play out today among non-European ethnic groups.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#62

Singapore is a strange outlier among successful democratic countries. There's always stories that are untold. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chin_Siong?wprov=sfla1 Operation Spectrum untracing the conspiracy' https://share.google/2mRpZk3RGaYUKCRXS

It's not really a proper democracy, the same party has ruled since the founding of the country. There are severe restrictions on speech, assembly, press and important legal and political barriers for the opposition parties. It is very easy to land in front of a tribunal for defamation or similar for expressing dissent or accusing the government of corruption. The truth is that Singapore has been lucky that Lee Kuan Y…

>The truth is that Singapore has been lucky that Lee Kuan Yew and most of his successors have been good bureaucrats and politicians. That makes the ruling party also somewhat popular.

I don’t think this is only by luck. Singapore made the decision to ‘pay the bureaucrats well’ so that they can build a career on it. This attracts more people to be a bureaucrat. The alternative is that only already rich people become politicians and bureaucrats or bureaucrats only getting their bag by joining lobbying firm after their time in government.

IMO, the hard part about implementing this ‘pay the bureaucrats well’ system is that it is often hard to determine the market rate as there are often no equivalent roles in the private market.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#63

> The story of Singapore’s ascent from ‘Third World’ to ‘First’, following its forced separation from Malaysia in August 1965, happened under the watch of another visionary, Lee Kuan Yew. Ah, yet another uncritical narration of the People Action Party's literal party line. Singapore was the second richest city in Asia (behind Shanghai) before WW2. While the PAP obviously deserves credit for their economic management…

Yes. All the fancy buildings in the historic city center (the cathedral, the national gallery buildings) were all pre war buildings. No small fishing village would have such grand buildings.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#64
post #33

Lee Kuan Yew is praised by Western academia because of 'benevolent authoritarianism' — in other words, the idea that a small elite should rule over the workers. In fact, his policies were authoritarian and dictatorial. Despite Singapore's geographical advantages, Lee's achievement in transforming it into a great financial hub is certainly a testament to his capability. However, when you consider his track record 'Ope…

Please modify your AI writing prompt to avoid semicolons, and the EM dash.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#65

Singapore is a strange outlier among successful democratic countries. There's always stories that are untold. For example, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lim_Chin_Siong?wprov=sfla1 Operation Spectrum untracing the conspiracy' https://share.google/2mRpZk3RGaYUKCRXS

"Over the following decades, Lee built a strong government that was backed by a competent and virtually corruption-free civil service..." This part of the history, only mentioned in this one sentence, is the most interesting and relevant for other countries, and is really what sets Singapore apart from other countries in the region.

The idea that Singapore isn't corrupt is one of the biggest lies of all time.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62m7xrd2z0o

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/10/spanish-couple...

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#66
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think this is a bitter pill to swallow for many because a more liberal sense of multiculturalism in AU and UK allowed enclaves to emerge which have now become intensely divisive where a less open "multiculturalism but conform to our norms" might have avoided.

Singapore is an enclave that emerged because of multiculturalism in Malaya caused by mass immigration from China, actually.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#67
post #43
post #34

My father landed in Singapore in the 1950s on the steamship SS Rajula, eighteen years old with 10 dollars to his name, to seek his fortune, stepping into a crime-ridden, filthy slum. As he described it, people crammed into shophouses, kampongs (villages) and squatter settlements with no proper toilets (human faeces and urine were carted away by "night soil" men carrying them in open containers in the streets), no cle…

> thinking the japs will invade from the sea Be mindful of using terms that are widely recognized as racial slurs.

[flagged]

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#69
post #59
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read (and this may very well be outdated), Singapore is generally democratic, but the PAP does such a good job of running the country that people don't vote for other parties.

Yeah we've heard that before from people who turned out to be filthy liars. Not saying it is impossible, the Singapore numbers are borderline plausible, but if the leading party gets more than 60% of the vote I'm going to assume shenanigans unless I've seen some pretty strong evidence beyond what a propaganda department would put out. People don't agree with each other all that much. Opposition can literally just con…

It’s interesting. They’re “cheating” a bit at least. They have these things called Group Representation Constituencies: multiple people represent a single constituency but you vote once for the team. So they’re clearly using this to up-weight areas they guarantee and to release ethnic cohesion voting (each team must have minority members in it). Interesting tricks that don’t require ballot stuffing etc.

It seems that Singapore/PAP figured out that policy control could effectively keep power without the violence traditionally associated with authoritarianism. I wonder what other dark arts they employ.

Re: Lee Kuan Yew's Singapore Story (2023)

#70

>Stamford Raffles stands – according to the plaque attached to the plinth – on the ‘historic site’ where he first landed as an agent of the British East India Company on 28 January 1819 and, thereafter, ‘with genius and perception changed the destiny of Singapore from an obscure fishing village to a great seaport and modern metropolis’. This is one of the greatest lies ever told, that Singapore was an obscure fishing…

That’s a different kind of misleading narrative, the “$PLACE was rich in pre-modern times” narrative. Places decline. Heck, by the middle ages, Rome’s population had dropped to just 30,000.
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