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When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

anthropic.com

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Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The arguments against AI assisted coding used to be "only for toy projects", then at some point it became "no dignity", "joyless". Now it's "no new breakthrough" apparently. All in the span of maybe a year. I say it's made tremendous progress.

Then where is the big new non toy project created since vibe coding became a thing, that couldn’t have been created without ai?

don’t know if this qualifies as big in your book, but there are some well marketed advances here:

https://deepmind.google/blog/alphaevolve-impact/

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#362

Anthropic is looking to IPO here soon. A key aspect of this is to prove profitability. Shifting their focus from Training new models to instead serving inference, they would greatly reduce their spend. In fact this is something being reported on that they are already doing, which is the reason for their first ever profitable quarter. Its awfully convenient that the company which has greatly reduced its spend on train…

Honest question: Is anyone here looking to put their own money into the Anthropic, OpenAI or SpaceX IPOs? Maybe it is my poverty mindset that is holding me back, however, I can't imagine becoming an investor in any of the AI 'startups'. There are plenty of pundits able to advise others on where to put their money, and sometimes there is everyone and their dog advising you to get into Bitcoin, gold or some other schem…

I can’t imagining investing into these frontier labs for the simple reason that Open Source is very likely to catch up in a relatively short period of time. I don’t see how OpenAI/Anthropic could then continue to serve their models with such large inference margins.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#363

This is the lowest quality discussion I've seen on HN in ages.

AI always does this in the public sphere and software is particularly susceptible because there's no key metric to measure productivity and people obviously have vested emotional interests in the technology failing. On the other side people are always keen to show off their alignment with the new hotness, be that OOP, Agile, Functional, Ruby, web tech, js frameworks, Rust or agentic work today. Somewhere in the middle is the truth but I have no idea how it looks, given all the noise.

So everyone cherry picks the answers they want to justify their position and screams into the void, with each camp rallying around their talking points and often failing to engage with the other in good faith.

The only small mercy is that its not as bad as the conversation around the use of AI in art.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#365
Was anyone else fished in by the title and disappointed? After some broad introductory discussion of RSI, the article was almost about LLM coding. While there are some metrics for unattended agentic coding, it doesn't discuss "When AI builds itself" (beyond 'not now') or any progress specifically toward actual recursive self-improvement. I'm very interested in any empirical evidence of meaningful progress in RSI, so... this felt deceptively titled.

To me, unattended agentic coding is not RSI, in the same way a self-reloading "Unattended 3D printer" is not at all a "3D printer that recursively prints complete 3D printers in which each generation is significantly faster and more advanced than the last." The "unattended" part is obviously necessary but hardly sufficient. The article tacitly assumes LLM progress to be something like 1: Unattended agentic coding, 2: AGI, 3: RSI. I suspect that third step should be labeled "not to scale."

I'm increasingly convinced that actual Full Foom RSI (FF-RSI) is on a radically different scale than the first two. Just leaving it unaddressed is like assuming: Step 1: Manned space station, Step 2: Manned Mars base, Step 3: Manned Alpha Centauri base, are "just logical next steps." FF-RSI requires sustaining superlinear, recursively amplifying cognitive returns along a specific directed path - and we currently have no empirical evidence that such returns can exist for artificial OR biological intelligences. Large collectives of the smartest humans alive (Bell Labs, IAS, etc) haven't just failed to get anywhere close to reliably sustaining that, we can't even reliably predict non-recursive, single occurrences or even imagine any way all 8B humans could fully mobilize to predictably achieve non-recursive, single occurrences.

The only prior we have for open‑ended intelligence improvement is biological evolution which shows extremely slow and unreliable sublinear returns at best. And even if unbounded, recursive self‑improvement is physically possible, it may be practically unachievable due to asymptotic economic, resource and other barriers in the same way approaching light speed requires exponentially more energy. I think it's plausible, and maybe probable, that AIs achieve true super-human intelligence in a decade and yet still won't achieve FF-RSI for centuries, if ever. To me, absent compelling evidence to the contrary, that's the reasonable Null Hypothesis. Even if you feel that's too pessimistic, it seems reasonable to expect any serious discussion of "Progress Toward RSI" to first discuss why it might even be plausible that 1: Miles, 2: AU (Astronomical Units), and 3: Light Years belong on the same scale, instead of just assuming it like the meme's empty "Step 3. .... " before moving on to "Step 4. Profit!" (or "IPO!" but very, very responsibly).

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then where is the big new non toy project created since vibe coding became a thing, that couldn’t have been created without ai?

I make one (small) almost every day. Admittedly the reason that couldn’t be done is because it would take time that I don’t have but 1000% every day something is written by AI that I use that would not exist if AI didn’t exist. I don’t publish them - but they’re put into use in production and they provide a tangible benefit that would not exist otherwise.

[dead]

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#367
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I've never been someone who mindlessly hypes AI companies, as a matter of fact I think they have serious leadership problems across the board, but you people are straw-manning them so badly it actually makes me sympathize with them. They aren't saying they have fully automated luxury AGI, they specifically list the ways models fall short of that bar and caution against people taking the 8x figure as the actual…

> At the same time they recognize that 80% of new code is now Al-authored I can setup a loop that will write a trillion lines of code automatically, how much of it is actually useful? Or are we back to counting LoC because there's no other metric for these systems that anyone can rely on?

It's 80% of new code they shipped that is AI authored.

Would you ship pointless code?

I do tend to agree though, it could be that AI solves problems with more code than a human would. What you need to measure is the value the code brings and how much of that is done by AI, hard to get an objective measure of that though.

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#368

What I can’t get over is that there have been exactly zero software breakthroughs since vibe coding started, other than vibe coding itself. Claude is amazing, that’s true. But if it was as amazing as this article implies, I’d expect some breakthrough outside of AI itself. Rewriting a Zig program in unsafe Rust? Not a breakthrough. Finding a bunch of security vulns? Maybe that’s sort of a breakthrough though it’s unde…

What does a software breakthrough look like in your opinion?

If you get yourself to define it, maybe you'll find it achievable :)

Re: When AI Builds Itself: Our progress toward recursive self-improvement

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For each frame our pipeline constructs a scene graph with React then > -> layouts elements > -> rasterizes them to a 2d screen > -> diffs that against the previous screen > -> finally uses the diff to generate ANSI sequences to draw Yup. Overengineering.

Care to explain how you'd engineer it instead?

Not use react native for a cli app for one, lol.

Ratatouille rust cli lib will be a good start.

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