No headless RDP solution is pretty unforgiveable in 2026 - right now I use Nomachine and indeed it requires X11. Why wouldn't Wayland have a solution for this? It is not a niche usecase. It is like, a headline, completely mainstream use-case.
Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
311–320 of 392 posts
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#312Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
Why do people only do this to the x11 guy? I bet if you interrogated the wayland side to the same degree you would find similar, or worse. Afterall, who is more likely to be the bad guy? The corporations hurting linux by killing accessibility and interoperability, or the guy giving his spare time to save them?
Because he's the person behind the project. https://x11libre.net/#about
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#313Plasma/Wayland Known Significant Issues[1] No ability to save and restore positions of native Wayland windows Real-fake-session-restored apps don't remember which virtual desktop their windows were on No full-screen aspect ratio correction "Spare Layouts" feature not implemented "Per-application Keyboard Layout" does not work No way to change the gamma or manually adjust the colors without generating or finding an ap…
Also, I still haven't found a clipboard manager that works normally on Wayland. And I rarely get it to recognize all my monitors first try. And it crashes semi-regularly. Not sure how much is inherent to Wayland vs Gnome, but life is way better since I upgraded to Xlibre & Cinnamon.
> Also, I still haven't found a clipboard manager that works normally on Wayland.
I recommend Vicinae. https://docs.vicinae.com/clipboard
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#314I read this yesterday wanted to raise awareness for it - https://nocoffei.com/?p=451 It describes the regression in accessibility software for Linux from x11 to Wayland. Unfortunately, judging by the pace of protocols being accepted, I think we're years out from having a solution. The most notable thing not working is Talon, which is a voice input system that lets you insert speech to text, manipulate windows, call s…
It's not just accessibility software but really any customization. Like always the people making the decision to break compatibility and benefiting by being able to work on the cool new thing don't even pay a fraction of the pain inflicted by it.
The web solved this decades ago by removing customizability. That's why all your extensions can do is add context menu items and toolbar buttons at the right side, and mess with the page itself.
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#315Earlier quoted context omitted.
How many buttons do you want on a window frame then? The typical 4 buttons already take a lot of space in the title bar. Not everything that seems like a good idea at first glance is actually good design.
I've fucking had it with you people and your "design" As many buttons as he thinks he needs, and as a compromise they can be disabled by default and enabled through settings. Instead your ilk will probably remove even those remaining buttons and replace them with some obscure movement command
No, I wouldn't. I'm not your enemy. Please don't antagonize people like that. It's rude and I considered not replying because of your tone.
I have a pretty strong oppinion that GUI basics must be simple but more advanced stuff (e.g. tools that trainee professionals spend most of their workday in) must not hide its raw power because the user can be expected to learn.
User interface essentials have to be understandable without mental gymnastics by default without appearing overwhelming. The overwhelming majority of computer users don't change defaults on most software and a shockingly big number of computer users deal with them only because they must, not because they derive joy from it. They don't engage deeply with these devices at all. So those defaults must be picked carefully to keep the UI approachable. This isn't the same as ripping out features or antagonizing power users that do bother to learn.
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#316Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Alternatively it might make sense to build some type of bespoke solution on top of a specific wayland stack, like re implementing what you get of talon in a kde plugin or via sway IPC. This seems viable to me but an incredible amount of work." I think that is the only way forward. There is no "Linux desktop". There is KDE, Gnome etc. and if you want to do "system utilities" you have to target one of those.
The point though is that there used to be a «Linux desktop» you could target before the Wayland transition. Fragmentation of an already small market segment is unfortunate.
It's KDE now. GNOME is the penguin that went to the mountains while KDE largely tries to be compatible with things that aren't KDE.
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#317Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’ll be a better place when Wayland (and by extension Gnome/KDE) stops becoming a cargo cult hell bent on destroying X11/Xlibre.
X11 is not dying because of Wayland, it's dying because it became an unmaintainable code mountain over the years since it has been tried to be converted to something which is not designed for in the first place. ...and I'm saying that as a person who likes X11.
That's Xorg. X11 is dying because Xorg is dying and Xorg is dying because all its developers quit and went to Wayland. There's Xlibre too but it's a shitshow. Any one of us here could continue Xorg maintenance but we're not.
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#318Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you aware that if software misuses the capabilities its given by the system you can choose to stop using that software?
You can't do anything about a compromised app or JS from a random website. I always find it weird when people attack Wayland's security model, more isolation is obviously a great idea, as demonstrated by supply chain attacks in the recent decade. It's that Wayland's design, implementation, their attitude, and everything else about it is terrible. It could have been implemented without compromising on features or conv…
Turn off the web browser feature that allows JS in an advertisement in a background tab to globally grab your input.
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#319> Moving forward with a single code path going through Wayland is going to allow us to bring new performance improvements, memory optimisations [sic], and brand new exciting features throughout Plasma. I wish they would have listed what some of those features might be.
HDR support would be one I suppose. IIRC it's plain impossible with X11.
Which is odd, because X11 has all this visual and depth stuff leftover from the days of 1/4/8/16-bit displays, and mixing windows of each type on the same screen. You would expect it to be capable of representing 48 bits just as well.
Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release
#320Earlier quoted context omitted.
I also think it's unfortunate that Talon is closed source. You see this even in the support practices adopted, where all support is routed through a slack chatroom which doesn't let you view history older than I want to say a few months but might be wrong on the length of time. The author seems to want to force all support requests to go directly through him, presumably because it increases his income if he can creat…
Hi, I'm the developer of Talon. It's possible to do the simple compositor specific hacks from Talon's scripting system to give yourself partial Wayland support at roughly the quality I'd be able to provide myself, and I know of a couple efforts to do this. The tentative plan for "dropping support for X11" is just to do one more public Linux X11 release, stop there, leave it available to download, and make it very cle…
Hi Lunixbochs, thank you for the comment. One of my take aways from the article was that you were considering removing the ability for Talon to work on x11 in the future. I appreciate the correction. I understand that you're dealing with a lot of unpleasant support requests (especially because people who have to use Talon are probably frustrated at having lost the ability to use their machine normally). I am sorry if I added to that, I do genuinely think you've made the world a better place.