Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

blog.davidedmundson.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 392 posts

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#141

Post by pmontra »

bityard wrote: post #45
ndiddy wrote: post #2

I think the KDE developers in particular have done a great job of pushing Wayland forward and getting features that people want and need added as new protocols. KDE feels a lot smoother and more responsive when using Wayland than when using X11, and by this point most stuff has been updated to work properly on Wayland so I don't notice any breakage or missing features in day-to-day usage. > Moving forward with a sing…

When I upgraded from Debian 12 to 13 on my personal laptop running KDE, I knew that the switch from X11 to Wayland would happen and was braced for all kinds of issues, like every other time I tried to switch to Wayland in previous years. Instead, I could tell literally no difference. Multiple desktops works fine, scaling works fine, screen capture works fine, old apps work fine, literally everything works just fine.…

For the records, Debian 13 Gnome with Wayland works as well as with X11. The only reason I'm still using X11 is that backlight control doesn't work anymore with my old laptop (it did with Debian 11) and X11 can work around it with gamma correction and Wayland can not.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#142

Post by LtWorf »

aidenn0 wrote: post #131
LtWorf wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My touchpad still works like shit on libinput (which is the only input method available on wayland). I guess in a few years I'll need to patch it and carry my patches forever. Yay progress!

Taking a wild guess that this may or may not help you: https://github.com/kekekeks/waynaptics

Cool, seems useful. I should try it and package it for debian if it works.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#143

Post by pmdr »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #6

Trinity Desktop supports X11. If you liked KDE3.5 you might like Trinity. Good bye KDE. Good bye Red Hat. We're doin our own thang now.

KDE 3.5.x really was peak desktop at the time, especially when all the K* apps were working as intended. As a Windows user discovering Slackware 10.2 back 2005, I was really blown away. KDE 4 just didn't feel the same.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#144

Post by josephcsible »

ahartmetz wrote: post #22
shevy-java wrote: post #7

Good old David - he loves systemd. No wonder he does not like X11. Oldschool KDE devs were better. Today's generation of David or Nate, are just killing KDE off. But no worries, on their blog they'll continue how everything is great. It is so great that they need a donation-widget to keep on pestering people to donate. So now you can pay for them ruining the legacy here.

I don't really like Systemd neither - but Wayland and Systemd are pretty much opposites of each other. Systemd does (too) many things, many of them badly. Wayland does well what it does, but it (still!) does too little. Wayland is adding features and is pretty close to doing "everything necessary". Systemd keeps accreting worse replacements for existing services.

They're similar in that they're both new things that are worse than what they're meant to replace.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#145

Post by Vinnl »

tambre wrote: post #23
laszlokorte wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know nothing about the detailed technical differences between X11 and Wayland but with Hyprland for me the PIP is working as expected so I assume its not just a Wayland issue but specific to the window manager you are using? Maybe somebody else can explain?

Gnome has a "Always on Top" toggle for each window. I imagine there's a protocol for an application to set it by default but the OP's window manager might not implement it or there might be an incompatibility.

Gnome has the same problem, that's why this exists: https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4691/pip-on-top/

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#146

Post by tmtvl »

brooke2k wrote: post #83

in my mind unfortunately this basically destroys KDE's viability as a gaming platform. SO many older games just do not work properly unless run under X11 (hell, some newer ones too). XWayland is good for everyday applications but for games in my experience it too often falls flat.

As someone who likes games from various periods (from Ultima IV to WH40K: Rogue Trader), I haven't ran into many games which do work on X11 and don't work on Wayland. Though I don't really have any of the old Loki games (I believe there was a port of Unreal Tournament?), so I might be missing out on the specific games which really lean into certain X11 features which XWayland doesn't support well.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#147

Post by quasigod »

brooke2k wrote: post #83

in my mind unfortunately this basically destroys KDE's viability as a gaming platform. SO many older games just do not work properly unless run under X11 (hell, some newer ones too). XWayland is good for everyday applications but for games in my experience it too often falls flat.

I'm very surprised to hear that. Ive seen some issues with apps using Xwayland, mostly scaling related. I dont recall ever seeing an issue with a game running on Xwayland. Its also how the Steam Deck runs all games.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#149

Post by setopt »

tuna74 wrote: post #96
suby wrote: post #46

I read this yesterday wanted to raise awareness for it - https://nocoffei.com/?p=451 It describes the regression in accessibility software for Linux from x11 to Wayland. Unfortunately, judging by the pace of protocols being accepted, I think we're years out from having a solution. The most notable thing not working is Talon, which is a voice input system that lets you insert speech to text, manipulate windows, call s…

"Alternatively it might make sense to build some type of bespoke solution on top of a specific wayland stack, like re implementing what you get of talon in a kde plugin or via sway IPC. This seems viable to me but an incredible amount of work." I think that is the only way forward. There is no "Linux desktop". There is KDE, Gnome etc. and if you want to do "system utilities" you have to target one of those.

The point though is that there used to be a «Linux desktop» you could target before the Wayland transition. Fragmentation of an already small market segment is unfortunate.

Re: Preparing for KDE Plasma's Last X11-Supported Release

#150

Post by thesuitonym »

porridgeraisin wrote: post #110
thesuitonym wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right right, and I'm not saying users shouldn't be able to have a floating window with video (or whatever) in it. I'm saying it shouldn't be Chrome making that window floating and always visible.

I don't get it, if you're on google meet, and you want to make one of many videos PiP. How can you ever do that in the window manager? It has to be done in the application! You right click or click on the menu on that particular video, and click Picture in picture. How the heck can the window manager do it?

If things were designed well, it would be as easy as clicking the pin icon on the window border.
Post reply on HN