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Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

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Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#291

Post by platevoltage »

jenscow wrote: post #215
sunaookami wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, age-verification IS bad and is a slippery slope that will always lead to surveillance. If we don't stop this now everything will get worse. And trying to lump this in with other extreme rhetoric doesn't help. The answer is and always was "better parenting".

I won't disagree with that. And "better parenting" is a solution. However, what about the children who don't have the advantage of "better parenting"? Rightfully blaming bad parents is reactionary

If parents don't want their kids on social media, get them a dumb phone, or use the parental control features. Maybe some parents don't care, and that's their prerogative. None of this is about protecting children, it's about "protecting" adults from "bad ideas".

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#292

Post by reaperducer »

armchairhacker wrote: post #231
Hugsbox wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe children should be on social media. Some other people might not share that belief. Should be up to parents to decide what's okay for their kids, not governments or companies. Age verification will always lead to more surveillance. People need to just be more mindful of what their children are doing online, maybe stop giving them smartphones, and just be parents .

I don’t think social media is intrinsically bad, just the toxic popular social medias. Did kids in the 1990s with access to internet forums have stunted social development?

Did kids in the 1990s with access to internet forums have stunted social development?

"He's intelligent, an underachiever, alienated from his parents, has few friends. A classic case for recruitment by the Soviets." — War Games

More seriously, internet forums weren't designed to be addictive. They were designed to communicate.

That's the difference between the past and the present.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#294

Post by ares623 »

Nasrudith wrote: post #245
ares623 wrote: post #106

If (big if) governments really wanted to help parents and children in any meaningful way, they would ban the actual hardware used to give constant access to these platforms. The ability to seamlessly record, upload, comment, react on _everything_, _everwhere_, _all the time_ is not natural, and not necessary. Let them keep the devices, whatever, but remove the internet access. Or keep the internet access, but remove…

That is what they would do if they wanted UFO sightings back and police brutality evidence disappearing.

People can still record all they want, they just need to wait until getting home to upload the content.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#295

Post by api »

armchairhacker wrote: post #231
Hugsbox wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe children should be on social media. Some other people might not share that belief. Should be up to parents to decide what's okay for their kids, not governments or companies. Age verification will always lead to more surveillance. People need to just be more mindful of what their children are doing online, maybe stop giving them smartphones, and just be parents .

I don’t think social media is intrinsically bad, just the toxic popular social medias. Did kids in the 1990s with access to internet forums have stunted social development?

Old school Internet forums and sites were not designed to be addictive.

The "time on site" KPI and its variants is the root of all evil.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#296

Post by hydrogen7800 »

armchairhacker wrote: post #146

Age verification is fine , at least in theory. It’s the implementations that are bad. More and more people agree that kids shouldn’t be on modern social media, including me. But most people also agree that mass surveillance is dangerous. The solution is to propose ways to block kids from modern social media (that actually works) without mass surveillance. Better parental controls, more parental education, and site-sp…

Why isn't there a simple solution in the software world that's functionally equivalent to flashing your ID at the liquor store? They get the verification they need with no permanent record of your PII.

This can't be that hard. Can't I get an electronic certificate/flag verified by a trusted third party using my ID, where this cert retains no PII? This is what I come up with after not thinking very hard about the problem, and I can't be alone.

Maybe its naive to think that harvesting PII isn't the point.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#297

Post by numpad0 »

falkensmaize wrote: post #31

One very simple way to give parents control over what their children see and participate in without violating everyone else’s privacy is to create adult and social TLDs and require these sites to migrate to them. So instagram.com becomes instagram.social, etc. Then mandate that all consumer network equipment mfrs and internet providers provide easily accessible ways to block these TLDs. Maybe combine that with some p…

You're massively underestimating rule interpretation skills of horny teenagers and gambling game developers. Total segregation based on actual solid cold hard ruleset is pure gasoline to them.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#298

Post by sundarurfriend »

lmz wrote: post #209
Hugsbox wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe children should be on social media. Some other people might not share that belief. Should be up to parents to decide what's okay for their kids, not governments or companies. Age verification will always lead to more surveillance. People need to just be more mindful of what their children are doing online, maybe stop giving them smartphones, and just be parents .

Somehow this "leave it to the parents" logic isn't followed when it comes to cigarettes or alcohol. Why is social media different?

Because the patterns of consumption and harm are very different. It's the constancy and immediacy of social media that makes up the major part of its harm. It's not something where a 15 minute smoke break or a weekend binge is the main mode of consumption and harm. So the parents have a lot more opportunity and power to handle it if they give it reasonable time and attention.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#299

Post by sumanep »

jvvw wrote: post #249

As a parent of teenagers, I feel like the sites make it hard for parents. When they were young, you had a choice between YouTube being completely locked down with no option to whitelist channels or letting them watch almost anything (although I think this has changed since but it's too late now for those of us with children that age). Now, there is no way I can whitelist contact/groups on WhatsApp or Discord servers/…

Safe Vision app

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#300

Post by [deleted] »

godshatter wrote: post #270
bryan_w wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state requires things sold to meet a bare minimum of safety. Cars sold require seat belts, movies/games sold require ratings. Devices sold have a meaningful parental controls flow.

Seat belts aren't forced on you - if you want to not use them and face the risk of fines, you can do so. Media ratings systems are informational, you can choose to let your kids watch R rated movies or above. Are they going to let parents have a choice when it comes to parental controls? What about non-parents? That's my gripe with the age verification systems I've seen, there is no room for parental choice and no co…

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