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I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

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Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#31

Post by [deleted] »

aeternum wrote: post #15
jraph wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is its optimal use case and how is it better than good old subway? (asking a bit naively, it's the first time I hear about it)

Imagine if the subway car you were riding in could detach from the train, take an exit tunnel to the surface streets then drop you off within a block from your house. AVs in tunnels allow for a wide range of density from 2-seater to high density bus/train-car like vehicles that can convoy through tunnels but still do point-to-point and on-demand. The main challenge is convincing the train-obsessed that 3d travel is b…

[deleted]

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#33

Post by duxup »

cornholio wrote: post #8

It's interesting how Loop criticism has evolved over the years: initially, it was claimed Boring Co has no chance of duplicating or significantly improving on the speed and cost of state of the art used by tunneling companies, or that the entire concept is fundamentally impossible or cost-prohibitive to build. After building the first stations, it changed to capacity concerns or that it's not Hyperloop, an completely…

Good execution.

The Vegas loop doesn't seem like that at all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPjODKUxV5g

It looks like a project they just quit on.

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#34

Post by aeternum »

mikaTheThird wrote: post #22
aeternum wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the subway car you were riding in could detach from the train, take an exit tunnel to the surface streets then drop you off within a block from your house. AVs in tunnels allow for a wide range of density from 2-seater to high density bus/train-car like vehicles that can convoy through tunnels but still do point-to-point and on-demand. The main challenge is convincing the train-obsessed that 3d travel is b…

1. If my vehicle can be detached from the convoy, why even attach in the first place. Just get me to my destination as efficiently as possible. Also being dropped a block from your house doesn't really sell it. 2. Aren't AVs suppose to greatly alleviate the traffic problem on existing roads since AVs can/will coordinate efficiently. I'm actually surprised that the loop doesn't operate autonomously and requires driver…

1) The "attach" would likely be virtual, just meaning a tight following distance. You could have optional shock absorbers if you're really worried about collisions in the tunnels. Most likely not needed though.

2) Yes I'm surprised also. Any theories on why? Too much of an edge case for tesla's focus?

3) I think yes but very few building have heliports, far more have parking garages that could double as tunnel ingress/egress. I think both will be used but tunnels support higher density and have less dependence on weather.

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#35

Post by aeternum »

kennyadam wrote: post #19
aeternum wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the subway car you were riding in could detach from the train, take an exit tunnel to the surface streets then drop you off within a block from your house. AVs in tunnels allow for a wide range of density from 2-seater to high density bus/train-car like vehicles that can convoy through tunnels but still do point-to-point and on-demand. The main challenge is convincing the train-obsessed that 3d travel is b…

I have so many questions... How many exit tunnels will need to exist for the final above-ground stage of the trip to be quick and not increase the total length of the route significantly? If there are exit tunnels all over the place, how long would it take to build all of them? If there aren't, how do you avoid massive jams as the multiple lanes merge to the single exit tunnel lane? How do all the exit tunnels connec…

They would generally be single lane tunnels so no merge issues. Breakdowns would be rare since these are well-maintained but if one did occur, the fleet would be programmed so the car behind simply pushes the AV through to the next exit.

They could terminate to converted underground parking garages (cities already have quite a few) and with AVs the need for personal parking would be greatly reduced. People would have plenty of time to get in and out without blocking the tunnel.

It's actually insane that most trains stations block the track, how quickly would you fire the dev that insisted on holding a perf critical mutex while waiting on user input?

Building the tunnels does need to be automated but that's exactly what Boring company is doing.

Ultimately human driving will be banned within cities. It's just far too dangerous. It's almost as deadly as smoking especially in cities and the risk asymmetry is extreme: pedestrians and those around the car are in far more danger than the driver.

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#36

Post by jraph »

aeternum wrote: post #34
mikaTheThird wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. If my vehicle can be detached from the convoy, why even attach in the first place. Just get me to my destination as efficiently as possible. Also being dropped a block from your house doesn't really sell it. 2. Aren't AVs suppose to greatly alleviate the traffic problem on existing roads since AVs can/will coordinate efficiently. I'm actually surprised that the loop doesn't operate autonomously and requires driver…

1) The "attach" would likely be virtual, just meaning a tight following distance. You could have optional shock absorbers if you're really worried about collisions in the tunnels. Most likely not needed though. 2) Yes I'm surprised also. Any theories on why? Too much of an edge case for tesla's focus? 3) I think yes but very few building have heliports, far more have parking garages that could double as tunnel ingres…

> if you're really worried about collisions in the tunnels

Cars can fail, you have to leave enough room to allow cars behind to stop in time to avoid a (cascade) crash.

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#37

Post by general1465 »

sligor wrote: post #18

I never understood how running a car, even electric one, in such small tunnel was considered safe.

This is USA, so unless there is an emotional video of people pleading for help while suffocating to fumes or lot of charred corpses in a tunnel, nothing is going to change. Prevention? That's socialism.

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#38

Post by kalleboo »

Zigurd wrote: post #30
zippothrowaway wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Vegas local I'll say the criticism evolved into "I'm never riding in that death trap after I found out how they skirted fire department approvals". There is as yet no fire department vehicle that can enter the tunnel. And from here [1] "Evacuation procedure basically consist of driving the car out of the tunnel, via the next station. If evacuation must be made in the opposite direction, the manual says the drive…

> "I'm never riding in that death trap after I found out how they skirted fire department approvals" This is why only a small number of cars will ever be in the Vegas loop tunnels. If there were any risk of a collision or a disabled vehicle that would prevent other vehicles from exiting a tunnel, that would be an unsafe and unacceptable outcome. Not only do subways have a real world measured capacity that is 4X Borin…

This is why only a small number of cars should ever be in the Vegas loop tunnels. There are already videos of traffic jams inside the tunnels.

Re: I rode Elon Musk's Vegas Loop, the worst transit system on Earth

#40

Post by gamerdonkey »

Zigurd wrote: post #29
cornholio wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hitting almost 4000 was a requirement of the LVCC bid and they actually hit 4400. This is all public info available from unbiased sources; preferring schadenfreude and rage inducing bait is, of course, a choice you are entitled to.

YouTube has many videos of people trying out the Vegas loop. None of them show something that possibly scales to 4400 riders per hour.

I'm just coming across this discussion now, but I did a little research that I can add to possibly explain the difference between the advertised capacity and the perceived capacity.

The 4400 number is based on a capacity test that the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority performed[1] to certify the Vegas Loop met its contractual requirements, which was 4400 riders per hour. The test was performed with "about 300 people", so results were extrapolated to reach the final number. The LVCVA didn't publish any further information about their methodology, so we can't really comment for sure on how realistic their conclusions might be.

However, a few months after the tunnel opened, there was some criticism[2] saying, "the highest hourly passenger rate hit thus far is 1,355 passengers per hour." It also notied that the ride took 4 minutes instead of the 2-minute goal. A spokesperson from the LVCVA responded:

> “The ride itself does in fact take two minutes,” Nelson-Kraft said. “What wasn’t taken into account are other factors of the Loop experience, like passengers load in and load out time. [...]"

Given that the LVCVA conducted the original capacity "stress test", I think it would be reasonable to guess that they tested only how many passengers can be pushed through the 12-foot-wide tunnel and did not consider loading and unloading as part of overall rates.

[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20210707125245/https://news3lv.c...

[2] https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/news-columns/road-warrior... (soft paywall, viewable with JS disabled)

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