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Debug Project

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Re: Debug Project

#81

Post by r0m4n0 »

The past 2 years in CA have been brutal for these invasive mosquitos. They bite all day and literally swarm around my house. It'll be 1pm on a hot day and they are all over.

I know this isn't attainable for most of the world but sharing in case someone else is similarly frustrated. I ended up spending $500 on a trap w/ co2 tank and it has been a life changer. I don't even see mosquitos anymore. Refilling the co2 is quite annoying and expensive ($20 every other week) and you have to clean out the 100s of bugs from the trap net but I can literally sit in my backyard all day again.

I wonder if a cheaper trap could be designed to give everyone little bubbles of safety.

Re: Debug Project

#82

Post by schmichael »

Large scale geo and bio engineering projects like these always worry me because of the potential for second order effects: is there wildlife that depends on these mosquitoes? Will a worse bug fill the resource void? Will a random mutation in the bacteria have adverse effects? What keeps the bad bugs from coming back from tiny populations in relatively short order because we can’t keep releasing new sterile males forever?

Hopefully all of these concerns have satisfactory answers, but the reference to it being a 1950s idea isn’t inspiring. Nuclear powered cars, widespread asbestos use, leaded gasoline, Freon… environmental impact wasn’t as big of a concern back then to put it mildly.

COVID proved that we can produce safe and effective vaccines extremely quickly if we actually try: so why not focus on that?

Re: Debug Project

#83

Post by obezyian »

classichasclass wrote: post #71
mapcars wrote: post #60

I don't understand non-breedable part, mosquitoes are a part of a food chain as everything else, surely you don't think eliminating them will have no consequences?

Ae. aegypti is not native to California. We won't miss it. This is addressed in their FAQ as well: "The general consensus among scientists is that the ecological impact of removing Aedes aegypti mosquitoes from urban environment would be small. They are not a significant food source for other animals and are invasive to many areas. The main ecological impact would be to restore the ecosystem to how it was before the…

> They are not a significant food source for other animals

In Indonesia for one they are. Every night, countless geckos come out, both indoors and outdoors, and start hunting for mosquitoes. Even lullabies sing about it [1].

The above song is so popular that it got an AI parody [2].

I'm curious what food chain reaction this will start if successful.

[1]: https://youtu.be/dOhHiwWwXFw

[2]: https://youtu.be/c6Ad8WAigdQ

Re: Debug Project

#84

Post by defrost »

obezyian wrote: post #83
classichasclass wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ae. aegypti is not native to California. We won't miss it. This is addressed in their FAQ as well: "The general consensus among scientists is that the ecological impact of removing Aedes aegypti mosquitoes from urban environment would be small. They are not a significant food source for other animals and are invasive to many areas. The main ecological impact would be to restore the ecosystem to how it was before the…

> They are not a significant food source for other animals In Indonesia for one they are. Every night, countless geckos come out, both indoors and outdoors, and start hunting for mosquitoes. Even lullabies sing about it [1]. The above song is so popular that it got an AI parody [2]. I'm curious what food chain reaction this will start if successful. [1]: https://youtu.be/dOhHiwWwXFw [2]: https://youtu.be/c6Ad8WAigdQ

What's the worst that can happen?

  The extermination of sparrows – also known as the Eliminate Sparrows campaign – resulted in severe ecological imbalance, and was one of the causes of the Great Chinese Famine which lasted from 1959 to 1961, with an estimated death toll due to starvation ranging in the tens of millions (15 to 55 million).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_campaign

Though that's unlikely to follow on from simply reducing mosquitoes in urban areas ... it absolutely warrants a close eye being kept on roll out and knock on effects.

Re: Debug Project

#85

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

bloppe wrote: post #67

My understanding (very informal armchair) is that someone could relatively easily wipe out aedes aegypti using a gene drive with a sort of sex-selective infertility: Release a few thousand females carrying a gene drive that produces all infertile males, and all fertile females (who all also have the same gene due to it being a gene drive). Every generation, there are more and more infertile males, and more and more f…

I'm hoping that at some point someone just disregards all the "safety" debate, does it, and succeeds. There is something deeply upsetting about being in the position humanity is on earth and still being expected to tolerate being eaten alive.

I wonder why we don't just try it on some remote island that has had mosquitoes introduced to it, but is otherwise considered isolated from the rest of the ecosystem (at least as far as mosquitoes are concerned).

Re: Debug Project

#86

Post by obezyian »

schmichael wrote: post #82

Large scale geo and bio engineering projects like these always worry me because of the potential for second order effects: is there wildlife that depends on these mosquitoes? Will a worse bug fill the resource void? Will a random mutation in the bacteria have adverse effects? What keeps the bad bugs from coming back from tiny populations in relatively short order because we can’t keep releasing new sterile males fore…

Developing new vaccines is expensive, and if the target population is mostly in poor countries, there's nobody to foot the bill. That's why these diseases are called "neglected".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neglected_tropical_diseases#Ec...

Re: Debug Project

#87

Post by gobdovan »

Interestingly, many other insects need blood to reproduce because they cannot produce some of the required proteins on their own. Some common flies do this too, including horseflies, black flies, sand flies, and others. Some famously transmit disease, like the tsetse fly.

It makes me wonder if this kind of technology is deployed, where should the stop line be? And I don't think it's a trivial question.

Re: Debug Project

#88

Post by DANmode »

r0m4n0 wrote: post #81

The past 2 years in CA have been brutal for these invasive mosquitos. They bite all day and literally swarm around my house. It'll be 1pm on a hot day and they are all over. I know this isn't attainable for most of the world but sharing in case someone else is similarly frustrated. I ended up spending $500 on a trap w/ co2 tank and it has been a life changer. I don't even see mosquitos anymore. Refilling the co2 is q…

How are they getting in?

Re: Debug Project

#89

Post by attila-lendvai »

schmichael wrote: post #82

Large scale geo and bio engineering projects like these always worry me because of the potential for second order effects: is there wildlife that depends on these mosquitoes? Will a worse bug fill the resource void? Will a random mutation in the bacteria have adverse effects? What keeps the bad bugs from coming back from tiny populations in relatively short order because we can’t keep releasing new sterile males fore…

heh, i almost upvoted your comment, but then you contradicted the main reasoning at the end.

(intervention in a complex system, and without proper testing at that... even if the covid vaccines were safe, that was by luck)

Re: Debug Project

#90

Post by DeathArrow »

When I read the heading I thought it was about software bugs and really wondered for a microsecond how can we stop bad software bugs with good software bugs. :)
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