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Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

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Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#101

Post by klipt »

hgnb wrote: post #49
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list li…

If you're the breadwinner, why don't you hire the domestic help to make meals for you and the kids, and incidentally help your wife if there's time left over?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#102

Post by klepra »

mladenkovacevic wrote: post #33

As the resident Serb here I should point out a Wikipedia page on Mileva Maric who was a brilliant scientific mind in her own right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric There are even some theories that she helped him early on in his career although there is no strong evidence to support that theory. As part of the divorce agreement Einstein made with Mileva, his Nobel Prize money was transferred to her and in t…

Why are Serbs always pointing out their nationality?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#103

Post by smadaan »

Without making this about judging a specific person in a certain context, what are the implications today?

(Some) folks seem to suggest that since Einstein was working on something as significance as GR, the solitude prioritized over family made sense. If Einstein's work had not succeeded, would the justifications still hold?

Actually... the question on my mind is: every person trying to do something on their own believes in their heart that it is the most important thing, something that will change the world. How far should one take that conviction/belief as justification to forego responsibilities of being a spouse or parent?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#104

Post by 001sky »

crntaylor wrote: post #98
noonespecial wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite: F × S = k. The product of Freedom and Security is a constant. To gain more freedom of thought and/or action, you must give up some security, and vice versa. These remarks apply to individuals, nations, and civilizations. Notice that the constant k is different for every civilization and different for every individual. --Larry Niven

The k = 0 case is an interesting one.

As is the case of 'multiple equilibria' ...

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#105

Post by gavanwoolery »

jacquesm wrote: post #87

Lots of judgments in this thread. Don't judge a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes. And keep in mind that we're looking at all this from almost a century later and that society has moved on quite a bit. Things that my grandparents would have considered perfectly a-ok would look ridiculous to you and me. Context is everything. In plenty of places in the world this would be an 'amicable arrangement' even today…

Even in a modern context, I do not think this list makes Einstein sexist (or a jerk).

If my girlfriend did not work, I would ask her to take care of all the chores and meals (which would probably be, at most, 20 hours a week of work). Accordingly, I do not see items A[1-3] on the list as unreasonable, given his wife was not employed at this period in their life. I also happen to be very particular about my desk area, given I spend most of my sorry life in front of it. :)

Einstein wanted to stay together for the sake of his children, but had clearly fallen out of love with his wife. If you had a lot of work to do, you probably would not want to be bothered with socializing with a person you no longer loved. He gave her the best options he could - even after she left him, he paid her half his salary and gave her his Nobel Prize money (which was enough to buy three houses, among other things), even though this was not legally required.

Mostly, this just seems like a list by a man who wants to be left alone so he can work, not a bad person.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#106

Post by gsk »

hgnb wrote: post #49
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

As a sole breadwinner,married to a woman who belittles me in front of our children, who, despite having full-time domestic help, grudgingly provides me with meals, who swings between extreme emotional neediness and rejection for weeks at a time and who occasionally physically attacks me in rages (she was diagnosed with a psychological disorder, but treatment is blocked by her family), I wish I could produce a list li…

I understand the pain (I have been in a similar position, less harsh than yours though, now things have turned out OK). There is one thing that has helped me through: showing unconditional kindness, regardless of the situation. I also read Buddha (I am not religious, Buddha was an exceptional man who understood much and took the time to show how to do relationships well).

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#107

Post by klepra »

randomdata wrote: post #47
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #14

I had heard a while ago that Einstein was a womanizer. Looks like he was a demanding jerk as well. Just goes to show that there is usually a huge difference between what we think of historical figures and how they actually were. It's interesting how much we want our heroes to be pure and spotless -- unlike any other humans we encounter.

I have to say, I didn't really come away with the "demanding jerk" impression at all. She wanted him to stay for the kids and continue to provide for the family. In return, he wanted some help around the house and to ensure emotional disconnect from the relationship that was already dead by this point. I expect couples today would form similar arrangements in the same situation.

So he was doing her a favour? Isn't he a father as well who should think for the best of his children too? So in other case he would just leave her with the children? Demanding 3 meals every day served or else is kind of disrespectful to someone you used to love.

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#108

Post by Tichy »

klepra wrote: post #107
randomdata wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, I didn't really come away with the "demanding jerk" impression at all. She wanted him to stay for the kids and continue to provide for the family. In return, he wanted some help around the house and to ensure emotional disconnect from the relationship that was already dead by this point. I expect couples today would form similar arrangements in the same situation.

So he was doing her a favour? Isn't he a father as well who should think for the best of his children too? So in other case he would just leave her with the children? Demanding 3 meals every day served or else is kind of disrespectful to someone you used to love.

3 meals a day might benefit the children, too. Not fighting in front of them is probably also a good idea. What does he propose that is bad for children?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#109

Post by hilko »

klepra wrote: post #102
mladenkovacevic wrote: post #33

As the resident Serb here I should point out a Wikipedia page on Mileva Maric who was a brilliant scientific mind in her own right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mileva_Maric There are even some theories that she helped him early on in his career although there is no strong evidence to support that theory. As part of the divorce agreement Einstein made with Mileva, his Nobel Prize money was transferred to her and in t…

Why are Serbs always pointing out their nationality?

Any ideas on why?

Re: Einstein's list of conditions for staying together with his wife

#110

Post by Tichy »

smadaan wrote: post #103

Without making this about judging a specific person in a certain context, what are the implications today? (Some) folks seem to suggest that since Einstein was working on something as significance as GR, the solitude prioritized over family made sense. If Einstein's work had not succeeded, would the justifications still hold? Actually... the question on my mind is: every person trying to do something on their own bel…

Doesn't a person have the right to demand solitude either way? He presented his conditions for getting on with the marriage. The alternative is to simply get a divorce. If what he needs is solitude, what is he supposed to do? I mean I don't see where the guilt comes from?
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