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The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

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Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#61

Post by Gigachad »

hulitu wrote: post #59
Gigachad wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren’t _that_ many. HEIF has been an unusually large pain in the ass just because it’s both patent encumbered and incredibly popular since the iPhone and many cameras use it. JPEG is woefully outdated with the lack of HDR and modern compression, HEIF can’t be used without paying a license, webp was designed just for extremely efficient small images rather than local storage, avif I’ve never seen used ever, and…

> There aren’t _that_ many. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_graphics_file_fo...

Almost all of these are historic relics of no relevance today. FLIF for example was a research project that was later the basis of JPEG-XL.

Pretty much only the ones I listed previously are serious contenders in the space right now.

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#62

Post by sarah-robiin »

AV1 already was a big leap toward efficient and open video formats. I'm awaiting AV2 since a long time.

Sure it'll take a while since it's implemented in chips and hardware so we got efficient and fast hardware encoding/decoding.

But a ~25% higher efficiency sounds very promising in times of increasing storage prices and chip crises.

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#63

Post by LunaSea »

drob518 wrote: post #50
tysonbru wrote: post #16

I’m curious how much AV2 will actually help older hardware in practice. I’m on a 2019 Intel MacBook Pro: 2.6 GHz 6-core i7, 64 GB RAM. The machine is still more than powerful enough for normal desktop work and software dev, but YouTube in Chrome has become borderline unusable for me. My internet is fine, Safari plays the same videos smoothly, and YouTube “Stats for nerds” shows plenty of buffer but the decoding makes…

I gave up using Chrome a decade ago. It’s a power sucking pig. Safari has its own issues, but at least it’s usable. When I need something that isn’t Safari, I use Firefox.

Safari has a terrible developer experience and has been behind in implementing the various browser API for years, including AV1 support.

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#64

Post by diegocg »

adgjlsfhk1 wrote: post #3
jjcm wrote: post #2

A few things - this is one step in a long, LONG path. AV2 is currently unusable in its current state (the encoder typically runs at around 1fps on good hardware), and likely will remain so til ~2028 when the first av2 hardware accelerated chips start dropping. Even then, I wouldn't expect AV2 streams to be common til 2030. IMO, if it were just the efficiency gains on the table (which are substantial - ~20-30% over AV…

Based on AV1's trajectory, hardware encode isn't necessary (though it is nice). The current encoder is a reference encoder. Now that the spec is finalized, expect significant speed improvements from production encoders (realtime likely won't happen until we get it in hardware though)

Anything running on a battery will need hardware acceleration

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#66

Post by kasabali »

thinkingQueen wrote: post #45

AV1 is being actively claim-charted by a lot of companies right now, and lawsuits are almost certainly coming. The same process is already starting for AV2, but most players are waiting for the AV1 cases to mature first. People keep calling the AV-family codecs “royalty free,” but in practice they increasingly look like a legal and financial gamble.

> in practice they increasingly look like a legal and financial gamble

As opposed to what, like HEVC? Where you need to pay 3 different patent pools to be sure (which all has different terms), then there's still other patent holders that aren't in any pools and come and hit you with loyalty requests any time under terms however they like to?

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#67

Post by kasabali »

necovek wrote: post #42
shmerl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully their patents will be busted and preferably Dolby will be also forced to pay damages for filing invalid lawsuits. That's the only way to teach patent trolls proper lessons.

While I agree with the general sentiment, I would not classify Dolby as a "patent troll" — they still do invest in research and developing products, right?

Patent mob seems more fitting.

Another example is Qualcomm

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#68

Post by kasabali »

tysonbru wrote: post #16

I’m curious how much AV2 will actually help older hardware in practice. I’m on a 2019 Intel MacBook Pro: 2.6 GHz 6-core i7, 64 GB RAM. The machine is still more than powerful enough for normal desktop work and software dev, but YouTube in Chrome has become borderline unusable for me. My internet is fine, Safari plays the same videos smoothly, and YouTube “Stats for nerds” shows plenty of buffer but the decoding makes…

Has nothing to do with video codec.

Download the video with yt-dlp & play it in mpv you'll see it even flies on a potato.

Play the same in browser and it'll be dropping frames left and right.

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#69

Post by buran77 »

zamadatix wrote: post #23
ethin wrote: post #19

And how long will it take before someone implements this standard and gets sued because Adobe or Dolby or whoever wanted to get slapped down? My knowledge may be out of date but if this is as "open" as AV1, I'm very skeptical that the individual companies will actually allow that. Greed and all that.

It took 7 years for the first patent assertion claim against AV1 to go to the courts and it will probably take a while for that case to resolve. Funnily enough, it wasn't from the pool constantly putting itself in the news about it over the years. I.e. it can take quite a while before attempts are made.

> It took 7 years for the first patent assertion claim against AV1

This might just mean that if the claim is found valid, there's seven years' worth of inertia slowing down any effort to move on. Seven years in which HW and SW manufacturers worked to build in the support, and you the user developed your processes or workflows around assumptions specifically tied to that solution. I'd rather know on day one if I should go that way or not.

Re: The AV2 Video Standard Has Released (Final v1.0 Specification)

#70

Post by ksec »

Orphis wrote: post #49
Gigachad wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardware encode is required if you want things like video calls, camera recording and such to use it. It isn’t required for content distribution platforms which aren’t realtime and the cost of encode is easily made up by hundreds of thousands of streams.

One of the interesting usage of AV1 was specifically for low bitrate calls, and software encoding was perfectly fine, even on mobile. With low enough resolution, framerate and bitrate, you can get a quality stream without significant encoding artifacts compared to any other codec. It is in production right now and has been for a while. The tradeoff CPU / bandwidth is quite advantageous in situations like this. And no…

Have you said this for Audio Codec I would have agreed. I do not know a single Smartphone Video Conferencing software that uses CPU encoding rather than hardware encoding. Neither WhatsApp or FaceTime, perhaps the largest of the two real time Video Call uses AV1.
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