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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#311

Post by jobs_throwaway »

jazzpush2 wrote: post #157
kleiba2 wrote: post #28

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…

I had the opposite experience, as it were, teaching in the UC system. The politics were mostly fine, but the students, especially those post-COVID, were the problem. Most of the students were always great. But it seemed like every quarter, there would be 5-10 problematic students whose, for lack of better term, entitlement, resulted in far more hours of work than worthwhile. And don't get me started on the false disa…

Give teachers authority again. It shouldn't be their problem if a student wants to fail the class.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#312

Post by scarmig »

59percentmore wrote: post #280
scarmig wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That mistakes the point of education. Schools do not exist to fix every social problem, and demanding they treat fixing every social problem as their number one priority is how we got into this mess of "teach nothing but make sure everyone passes" in the first place.

>Schools do not exist to fix every social problem By law, they monopolize up to half of a child's waking life for more than half of the year. This time commitment requires that parents put at least one meal, a substantial portion of the child's physical development, and almost all of their intellectual development (and, by extension, a substantial portion of their behavioral development) in the hands of the school. I…

That's one philosophy, sure. My philosophy is that schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed, no matter what rhetoric they put out about equity and social problems.

(There are limited situations where it does make sense, logistically, for schools to provision social services. E.g. meals for students who don't have access to steady food sources. But those are relatively uncontroversial, as opposed to curricular and classroom management practices that make sacrifices of schools' educational integrity for a theoretical goal of equity, while failing to even deliver that.)

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#314

Post by throwaway5752 »

Catloafdev wrote: post #219
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

This is absurdly problematic. Your solution is basically handicapping the schools with kids that perform worse and then potentially closing them? That doesn't solve the problem, this is just pro-Charter School propaganda that ignores the real-world effects of these positions. You've identified a real issue with the 'equality' vs 'equity' concept, that doesn't lead to 'Close public schools and switch everything to Cha…

It's funnier because it's old, failed policy that they are recycling without being aware of it because they are ignorant. All old things really do become new again.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#315

Post by TMWNN »

watwut wrote: post #248
f13f1f1f1 wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The actual alternative is to provide resources to schools that are in bad areas. And to provide resources for people in those areas themselves.

As others have told you, there is no evidence that increased school funding in and of itself results in better results.

Contrary to what is often said, there is no shortage whatsoever of funding for public schools in urban areas. New York City spends more per student than anywhere else in the US. https://www.silive.com/news/2019/06/how-much-does-new-york-c...> Baltimore, an incredibly poor and run-down city, spends the third most. #4-6 and #8 are all wealthy suburbs of Washington DC, but their schools are all far better than those of Baltimore or NYC on average, despite Baltimore spending slightly more per student and NYC spending 60-70% more.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#316

Post by spiralcoaster »

john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Now imagine a significant portion of your students are missing the prerequisites.

Do you really think these professors are up in arms about a few students who don't have the prereqs? It obviously must be a large enough proportion to worry about.

It's no longer "if a student somehow makes it into my class", it's "many students are currently making it into my class"

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#317

Post by john_strinlai »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #297
john_strinlai wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without any intention of educating them properly as per your comment. my comment in no way implies that we have don't have an intention of educating our students properly

I know, but your comment also in no way implies that you are taking into account the bigger picture here, where the criticism is directed at the admissions process, and wherein universities are honestly at fault. If university-level classes have pre-requisites that should be taught in high school, then universities should screen for that and disqualify students who do not have the required competency. They should not…

>I know

then why did you accuse me of not intending to educate my students?

>Meanwhile, educators also shouldn't accept that "pointing [students] in the right direction to get caught up" is enough, because objectively speaking, it's not---that is not how a student develops an understanding of maths and sciences.

you havent bothered to ask what "pointing in the right direction" entails, and are making (wrong) assumptions.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#318

Post by jobs_throwaway »

DonutATX wrote: post #128
kleiba2 wrote: post #28

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…

I suggest you glance at the novel Ananthem by Neal Stephenson. The core plot device is about "universities" stripping all worldly items away from the students, so they are left with simple clothes and chalkboards. Fascinating topic, well executed by Neal. One of my favorite books.

Anathem* for those like me who googled it

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#319

Post by stogot »

scarmig wrote: post #312
59percentmore wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Schools do not exist to fix every social problem By law, they monopolize up to half of a child's waking life for more than half of the year. This time commitment requires that parents put at least one meal, a substantial portion of the child's physical development, and almost all of their intellectual development (and, by extension, a substantial portion of their behavioral development) in the hands of the school. I…

That's one philosophy, sure. My philosophy is that schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed, no matter what rhetoric they put out about equity and social problems. (There are limited situations where it does make sense, logistically, for schools to provision social services. E.g. meals for students who don't have access to steady food sources. But those are relatively uncontroversi…

Not only failed, but then commit a fraudulent activity to cover up their sins leading to a systemic destruction of society and theft of taxes

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#320

Post by ryandamm »

julianeon wrote: post #143
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

> Personally, I think all funding in California education (other than terminal levels like 4 year bachelors and up) should be a function of the percentage of students that succeed at the next step. This has the unintended consequence of encouraging schools to eject students who are struggling. For example, if the student has a learning disability, declare that it's too serious for them to handle, and then transfer th…

This already happens — my district when I was in school, and my son's district now, both have / had "alternative" high schools that kids get transferred to when they're struggling. Kids who are dropping out inevitably get transferred as part of the process; the high school they were originally attending has stellar graduation rates. The alternative high school has miserable graduation rates, but no one really cares.
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