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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#241

Post by VortexLain »

skydhash wrote: post #195
account42 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now that's just needlessly extreme in the other direction. Students will be seeing devices much earlier than that just because their peers will use them so it makes sense to educate them on their proper use and dangers much earlier than college. It just doesn't make sense to cram them into every subject because not using one is outdated.

Students also see power drills and cars, and schools don’t use them as part of the curriculum. I have a lot of computing device and still believes in real books and pen or paper for learning anything. The mechanical actions and the physical presence really helps in retention of the materials. Even those TI calculators can be overkill. I’ve only used one in college, and it was for a few exams about polar coordinates a…

> The mechanical actions and the physical presence really helps in retention of the materials. Although this is the case for many people, I personally struggle to process information and write it on paper at the same time. Thus, I strongly prefer digital note-taking and use Obsidian or just vim instead of paper.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#242

Post by watwut »

hedora wrote: post #161
confidantlake wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most important factor isn't the schools, it is the kids themselves.

California used to have the best schools in the country, and roughly a third of our urban population is Silicon Valley. It's home to the largest economy in the US by a large margin, and is one of the richest states. Yet, somehow, for math: https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/stateprofile?sfj=... the only states/territories doing worse at math are DC, Puerto Rico, New Mexico, and Alabama. I'm not sure what Alab…

Silicon Valley is also the place of serious homeless problem. "The economy" as an abstractions is not what matters - the economy here is some people being super rich while others increasingly outside of good options.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#243

Post by trunnell »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #168
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

The people working on this aren't idiots. There are people who see massive business opportunities for enriching themselves in privatizing the education system. Some of there points are reasonable, and sometimes they are frauds. Either way, they lobby hard and have a lot of generally Republican politicians in their pockets. Also, teacher pay is terrible in comparison to the job stress and - reasonably and expected - e…

> The people working on this aren't idiots.

Which people are you referring to?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#244

Post by empath75 »

f13f1f1f1 wrote: post #223
Catloafdev wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurdly problematic. Your solution is basically handicapping the schools with kids that perform worse and then potentially closing them? That doesn't solve the problem, this is just pro-Charter School propaganda that ignores the real-world effects of these positions. You've identified a real issue with the 'equality' vs 'equity' concept, that doesn't lead to 'Close public schools and switch everything to Cha…

[flagged]

It sounds like you have some particular groups in mind.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#245

Post by account42 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #75
lokar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should not admit students who have little chance of success

Sure, but these students are likely two groups; those who are never going to be good at math , and those who were never really taught math . The latter may need an opportunity to succeed.

At the university level it should be up to the student to ensure that they learn what they need.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#246

Post by mftrhu »

bix6 wrote: post #167
mlsu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s definitely actively bad to involve a device in the vast majority of education. And, it’s a purely selfish thing by tech companies to insert themselves into education. A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class.

I learned typing in 3rd grade iirc. That seems reasonable for a fundamental skill.

You don't necessarily need a computer for that. They built more than a billion typewriters, IIRC.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#247

Post by alex_suzuki »

kubb wrote: post #214
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Why do you even need higher education if you can brain drain educated people from India?

Why so complicated? I thought the idea was to rent intelligence from OpenAI.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#248

Post by watwut »

f13f1f1f1 wrote: post #223
Catloafdev wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurdly problematic. Your solution is basically handicapping the schools with kids that perform worse and then potentially closing them? That doesn't solve the problem, this is just pro-Charter School propaganda that ignores the real-world effects of these positions. You've identified a real issue with the 'equality' vs 'equity' concept, that doesn't lead to 'Close public schools and switch everything to Cha…

[flagged]

The actual alternative is to provide resources to schools that are in bad areas. And to provide resources for people in those areas themselves.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#249

Post by NewsaHackO »

f13f1f1f1 wrote: post #223
Catloafdev wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absurdly problematic. Your solution is basically handicapping the schools with kids that perform worse and then potentially closing them? That doesn't solve the problem, this is just pro-Charter School propaganda that ignores the real-world effects of these positions. You've identified a real issue with the 'equality' vs 'equity' concept, that doesn't lead to 'Close public schools and switch everything to Cha…

[flagged]

Wow, what a position

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#250

Post by hedora »

scarmig wrote: post #240
thewebguyd wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The heritability of IQ actually changes based on wealth, so its the other way around. A child from a wealthy family will reach their potential, where one from a poorer family will not. ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14629696/ ) A child may have the genetic potential but never reach their potential because of outside factors. One's environment shapes one's brain development. That's why equity is just as important a…

That mistakes the point of education. Schools do not exist to fix every social problem, and demanding they treat fixing every social problem as their number one priority is how we got into this mess of "teach nothing but make sure everyone passes" in the first place.

Yes, but back when California was poorer, it had some of the best schools in the nation. Now that it's richer, the schools are collapsing, so it's really hard to argue that systematic social problems are the root cause.
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