Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 925 posts

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#181

Post by swiftcoder »

ceejayoz wrote: post #4
john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

This is why universities have offered what amount to remedial math classes for donkey's years. Even in the early 2000's, if you showed up to Calculus I without sufficient preparation, you'd find yourself bounced to Pre-Calculus by the end of the week.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#182

Post by hedora »

julianeon wrote: post #143
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

> Personally, I think all funding in California education (other than terminal levels like 4 year bachelors and up) should be a function of the percentage of students that succeed at the next step. This has the unintended consequence of encouraging schools to eject students who are struggling. For example, if the student has a learning disability, declare that it's too serious for them to handle, and then transfer th…

Public school districts cannot expel students in California.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#183

Post by make3 »

WarmWash wrote: post #159

Why do we have such an easy time accepting peoples intrinsic athletic ability and such a difficult time accepting people's intrinsic mental ability? To me this is a 1:1 comparison, but people lose their mind when I make the comparison. College isn't for everyone just like amateur league sport isn't for everyone. I feel like I am going to a minor league baseball game and seeing a shortstop on the field with the motor…

No one is saying there isn't, but it's objectively a stupid massive oversimplification of how complex things like a human brain and human learning really are.

For one, people used to be a lot better, do unless you think people are actively dumber, you argument doesn't hold.

School capabilities also correlates massively with things like access to resources and wealth of parents, and inversely with mental health.

We also have very strong incentives as a society, as an economy and as a democracy to have as many educated people as possible, to work on setting the best conditions possible for people to learn

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#184

Post by avidiax »

pseudalopex wrote: post #84
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

They defined equity as Fair outcomes, treatment, and opportunities for all students.[1] [1] https://www.cde.ca.gov/qs/ea/

What is a "fair" outcome?

Is it easier to hold back talented students with a low bar or push untalented ones to a higher bar?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#185

Post by ceejayoz »

jeffbee wrote: post #165
ceejayoz wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such a "SAT test prep course" is going to involve more than just self-guided practice exams. It'll include feedback and coaching to address deficits revealed by those practice exams.

You seem to be arguing with someone else.

No; I'm saying "just take practice exams" isn't what we're really talking about. They are merely a part of high-end test prep offerings.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#186

Post by anal_reactor »

jdw64 wrote: post #45

Looking at the world, it seems we all go through similar systemic issues. Naturally, in East Asian cultures where the fervor for education is overheated, this phenomenon tended to manifest much earlier. When specific exams are abolished or watered down under the banner of 'diversity and equal opportunity,' the wealthy actually gain a massive advantage. Of course, the exam system itself inherently favors the rich as w…

When school doesn't force kids to study, there is a growing gap between parents who do and those who don't. Wealth is just a proxy for that.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#187

Post by stonogo »

ncr100 wrote: post #140
collabs wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking why not use the iPad simply as a letter pad with infinite pages? the new iPad with the new iPad pencil can do that and I am sure with the right software you can write, erase, rewrite as much as you want? What am I missing?

Human biology likely makes it harder to write on a glass screen with a perceptible Gap in time, latency between where the pen is and where the pixels appear as well as the physical colocation Of the pencil tip and the written line differs more so on a tablet screen than on direct application of matter to paper. This confuses us, a little tiny teeny tidbit. And that is not helpful! Plus because glass is slippery you m…

That isn't a matter of human biology. You learned to expect a specific experience when you took pencil to paper at a young age. Other people can learn to expect different experiences. Your acquired habits are not a genetic imperative. All of this post seems like ex post facto justifications for an implicit claim that the tech you grew up with is natural and good and the tech that came later is somehow inimical to life.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#188

Post by vkou »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #124
zdragnar wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they not have remedial classes for these students? It's been more than 20 years, but back in my day, if you weren't ready for entry level classes (but still got in to university) you took remedial classes first.

The processes for delivering remedial classes no longer work at the scale required. UC San Diego published a detailed report of what's happening at their campus ( https://senate.ucsd.edu/media/740347/sawg-report-on-admissio... ): their remedial math placement grew from 32 students in 2020 to 921 students in 2025, 665 of whom placed into an extra-remedial course covering grade 1-8 math which had not previously been ne…

Is there a shortage of students who have a grasp of elementary school math, who apply to UC?

Instead of admitting the captain of the ping-pong team (who can't count past 21 - or past ten without pulling off his boots), maybe admit any one of the students who... Did not have the extracurricular pedigree, but actually applied themselves and passed Math 12?

Surely, there's more than a few hundred of the latter in California.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#189

Post by jazzkingrt »

ryandrake wrote: post #68
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Measuring (and funding) schools based on student outcome is fraught because a student's performance / preparedness for the "next level" is not entirely a function of the school. There are other significant parameters, including parental upbringing, home life stability, neighborhood safety, friends, hunger/nutrition, various trauma and abuse, the list goes on. I'm sure it's been studied, but I'd bet "school quality" i…

I have many concerns with this kind of funding model, but I don't think the measurement problem is so serious. Performance incentives in education typically reward improvement of the student cohort relative to how it was performing the previous year, or even use value-added models that use multiple past years to predict the student trajectory.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#190

Post by john_strinlai »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #178
john_strinlai wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You cannot reject more than one or two students in a year this seems absurdly low, from my experience. but i have only taught in one school, so maybe we're the outlier? i would say one to two failing students per course is the baseline, not the cap. can you share where you are getting this number from? is that the guideline where you teach?

Just use AI: https://abcnews.com/WN/houston-teachers-fired-students-faili... See also: Adele Jones, Steven Aird, Diane Tirado It's a complete national mess. You don't know what will happen in your school until you do it. Half of the country hates hard teachers, the other half loves them.

>Just use AI:

your article appears to be about high school?

1 to 2 failing students per course is expected (from lived experience, not ai)

Post reply on HN