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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#81

Post by Ekaros »

ceejayoz wrote: post #4
john_strinlai wrote: post #3

> “We now observe preparation gaps so severe that instructors must reteach middle-school mathematics while simultaneously teaching the material students need for sciences, engineering, economics, and other quantitatively demanding fields,” they warned. i dont understand why the teachers would go out of their way to reteach middle-school math. i teach. my courses have prerequisites. if a student somehow makes it into…

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

Also these are most likely the first classes. You can not block most of your entering cohort. Or even any way significant part. At least in the system these professors exist in. In some other systems like say German where getting in easy and getting rid of some is normal would be different.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#82

Post by SoftTalker »

scarmig wrote: post #51
1970-01-01 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the entire problem in a nutshell. You cannot reject more than one or two students in a year or the school will reject you.

That's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. Treating universities as a system, it is deeply problematic and even immoral to saddle students with tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to enter programs that it is entirely predictable that the student will fail at. The solution is to use all the methods available to predict how successful the student is likely to be after matriculating, not to w…

But universities need the tuition to support ever more bloated administrative hierarchies and salaries. Most are in a state of abject panic because international graduate enrollments (a cash cow) are way down in the past couple of years. Staff layoffs are starting to happen, which were previously almost unheard of.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#83

Post by jeffbee »

criddell wrote: post #46
ceejayoz wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Preparing for the SAT requires a book and an internet connection. Sports frequently just requires a ball or a place to run. In both scenarios, you can still purchase better equipment/training. There are very expensive, effective SAT prep options out there for the wealthy.

My kids were able to take some SAT test prep course through their school (partially funded by the PTA) and it helped a lot. They wrote a bunch of practice exams and each time their scores went up. Also, test taking itself is a skill and the more you practice it the better you get at it. If you’ve written the SAT 15 times over the past 2 years, then the 16th time won’t be as stressful and you will know strategies that…

You can, as of about a year ago, take official SAT practice exams for free in Google Gemini.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#84

Post by pseudalopex »

hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

They defined equity as Fair outcomes, treatment, and opportunities for all students.[1]

[1] https://www.cde.ca.gov/qs/ea/

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#85

Post by ptek »

travisgriggs wrote: post #65

It’s ok. In the future, no one will do math. Mathematicians will be directors, with a team of math bots that they administer and direct. Instead of being managed, they will become the managers of mathematic autonomons. Universities need to get with the program. /s

Internet streamers will need to know basic math unless they are clowns.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#86

Post by radiator »

declan_roberts wrote: post #67
ceejayoz wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professors who fail large swathes of their classes get in trouble.

The types of students who are entering college needing dramatic remedial math are not the ones you want to fail in large numbers.

Sounds somewhat defeatist. Besides, the teacher nevers wants to fail anyone. Teachers would be happy if all students performed well.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#87

Post by ceejayoz »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #76
ceejayoz wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your scenarios, equity proponents would tend to advocate for things like extra testing time, access to tutoring, etc. (And systemic efforts to prevent dropping bricks on childrens' heads in the first place.)

>In your scenarios, equity proponents would tend to advocate for things like extra testing time, access to tutoring, etc. So you claim, but in reality proponents of equity instituted a system that gave Black students a roughly 450 point advantage over Asian students on the SAT: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/30/opinion/white-students-un... Note that the NYT, in their pure, non-partisan spirit of fairness and equity,…

> somehow found a way to describe this as an unfair advantage for White students

Make up your mind? If their having to score higher than Black students is unfair, how is "Asian-Americans had to score 140 points higher on their SATs than whites" not also unfair?

What if raw SAT score doesn't perfectly reflect lifelong achievement? As I noted elsewhere in the thread, wealth (translated to parenting time, tutoring access, better schools, etc.) can help do better on the SAT. How does one account for that?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#88

Post by TimorousBestie »

JCTheDenthog wrote: post #41
ceejayoz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also from my link: > factors specific to one's personal conditions should not interfere with the potential of academic success

Sure, but the reality is that such conditions do interfere with the potential of academic success, as much as proponents of equity like to argue otherwise. If I had a severe brain injury as a child, or my mom drank and did a ton of drugs while pregnant with me, or any number of other reasons, I will probably be far less academically successful than in the counterfactual reality where I didn't get a brick dropped on m…

> Sure, but the reality is that such conditions do interfere with the potential of academic success, as much as proponents of equity like to argue otherwise.

This is a bizarre claim in the second clause. Proponents of equity do recognize that various conditions impact academic potential; otherwise, they wouldn’t attempt to ameliorate them.

You even quoted, “Equity recognizes this uneven playing field. . .” so where did “. . . as much as proponents of equity like to argue otherwise,” even come from?

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#89

Post by WillAdams »

pgh wrote: post #64

The lack of any subject level standardised US high school certification to prove skill-level for matriculation still boggles my mind. I realise this is fundamentally a curriculum issue, as it’s set at a local level. There’s AP, but that’s not universally available.

For my part, it has always killed me that schools don't do as one system which I once briefly attended did --- divide courses between academic and social --- academic classes are attended at one's ability level, while social classes are at one's age level.

I was in 4th grade, but attended 8th grade math, science, English, and history (there was a 4 grade cap until after 8th grade classes) while my homeroom, Phys. ed., and social studies were with my 4th grade age peers.

Some teachers at the school were also accredited as faculty at a nearby college, and for students who were able to take courses which weren't able to be taught, either a professor from the college would come to the school to be taught, or arrangements would be made to bus students to the college.

It wasn't uncommon for students to be awarded a college diploma along with their high school diploma at graduation and there were multiple instances of multiple majors being completed.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#90

Post by ceejayoz »

jeffbee wrote: post #83
criddell wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids were able to take some SAT test prep course through their school (partially funded by the PTA) and it helped a lot. They wrote a bunch of practice exams and each time their scores went up. Also, test taking itself is a skill and the more you practice it the better you get at it. If you’ve written the SAT 15 times over the past 2 years, then the 16th time won’t be as stressful and you will know strategies that…

You can, as of about a year ago, take official SAT practice exams for free in Google Gemini.

SAT prep is much more than just taking practice exams.
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