I wonder how Ed Zitron will shift goal posts this time, and how long it will take for that article, when published, to reach HN front page.
I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
81–90 of 1001 posts
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you tried the large open source code models? I use glm-5.1 and occasionally deep seek v4. They are as good or better than Claude's latest models. And significantly cheaper. I've converted 3 of my engineer friends as well. All three have dropped their $200 month plans they had with anthropic. We've all been a bit shocked at just how good these models are now. If you "have" tried GLM (I specifically find it shocki…
I use GLM-5.1. It's good enough for personal stuff. It doesn't compare to the latest Opus I use at work. You can certainly argue I don't need Opus for work, but there is clearly a difference. Also, at least with z.ai, GLM-5.1 is s l o w! After using Claude at work, I get really impatient with GLM-5.1 at home. When doing "true" vibe coding (i.e. not really examining the code), Opus is a ton faster (easily 5x). But yea…
Hmm, I use opencode subscription, and glm seems just as fast from the tests I've tried to compare between the two. Tbh it mostly took Claude longer (mostly significantly longer) for the same tests.
Also, and I know you may not want to answer. But could you give me an idea of the type of thing you found glm to be worse with?
I think I've been fairly unbiased in testing a bunch of different development tasks. But am curious if maybe it performs well for some stuff and not others. So if you could share what you feel it's worse at.
Also are you an experienced developer or less experience?
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#83Anyone actually making money paying all of these monthly fees? Or just hobbyists? I have yet to see any real ROI posted anywhere.
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#84They've got, ballpark, $5t to $10t to make back in the next 5 years, or the hardware buildouts will start getting written down. This means we're going to need $1t+ per year in spending, per year, on tokens. 200m knowledge workers in the world, 30m developers. We're talking about a world where you need 5% of every knowledge workers salary to go into tokens. 20% if you're a developer. That's a _huge_ shift. Most people…
Somehow Uber and WeWork survived the same kind of grand projections that they never met.
somehow the invisible hand of the market is also blind af
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#85Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#86> $2,180.16 worth of tokens for $200 “Tokens” don’t have an intrisic cost or value. Saying that I used $2,180.16 worth of tokens is like relying on the salesperson to convince me I’m getting a billion dollars worth of pots and pans for $19.99. I think it’s funny how we are throwing critical thinking out the window when it comes to evaluating biased sources of info.
I'm not sure what you're pushing back against here. I spent $200. If I had been paying API pricing it would have been $2,180.16. The article is about how enterprise customers get charged API pricing, which means if I had been employed by one of those companies I would have cost them $2,180.16. What am I missing?
Just because API pricing would've been $2180.16 doesn't mean that's the value of those tokens. For starters, you personally probably wouldn't have paid that. But also, sales price isn't value. This is like saying, oh, I saw this bar of gold somewhere for $10000 but got it here for $1000! So I got $10000 worth of gold for $1000! - no, the value of that gold is determined by its weight, which wasn't even mentioned.
We have no market convergence on tokens yet (and it'll differ between LLMs), so it's impossible to say what value you got for your $200.
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
Have you tried the large open source code models? I use glm-5.1 and occasionally deep seek v4. They are as good or better than Claude's latest models. And significantly cheaper. I've converted 3 of my engineer friends as well. All three have dropped their $200 month plans they had with anthropic. We've all been a bit shocked at just how good these models are now. If you "have" tried GLM (I specifically find it shocki…
I use GLM-5.1. It's good enough for personal stuff. It doesn't compare to the latest Opus I use at work. You can certainly argue I don't need Opus for work, but there is clearly a difference. Also, at least with z.ai, GLM-5.1 is s l o w! After using Claude at work, I get really impatient with GLM-5.1 at home. When doing "true" vibe coding (i.e. not really examining the code), Opus is a ton faster (easily 5x). But yea…
I'll repeat something I wrote on an entirely separate HN submission.
When DeepSeek V4 Pro came out, I had been mostly coding with GLM-5.1 on a Z.ai coding plan.
I had a large analysis task on a relatively complex codebase. I decided to try the models out.
GLM-5.1 did acceptably but got a few things wrong (easily corrected) and took quite a while to get there.
Opus 4.6 burnt through the US$10 budget I had given it in about 10-15 min, without ever returning from the first prompt.
DeepSeek V4 returned a full analysis within 2-3 min, and I carried on all the way to implementing the feature I was after. Total cost less than US$1.00.
I now mostly alternate between GLM-5.1 and DeepSeek V4 Flash, with an occasional dip into V4 Pro for more complex analyses.
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
Source on 200 million knowledge workers worldwide? My understanding is that it's just above 1 billion. I dont think a billion subscriptions at $1000/yr is out of the question but it might take a decade to get roiling
A billion? Really? At 200M you’re already including a lot of people that stretch the definition of knowledge worker.
> At 200M you’re already including a lot of people that stretch the definition of knowledge worker.
How do you know this? Im certainly open to recalibrating my numbers which is why I asked for the source
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#89> Anthropic are strongly rumored to be about to have their first profitable quarter. Is that quarter same as any other quarter in terms of infrastructure costs (e.g. are there any temporary discounts happening coincidentally)?
Hey man, that discounted rate on Colossus 1 inference is purely coincidental...
Re: I think Anthropic and OpenAI have found product-market fit
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure what you're pushing back against here. I spent $200. If I had been paying API pricing it would have been $2,180.16. The article is about how enterprise customers get charged API pricing, which means if I had been employed by one of those companies I would have cost them $2,180.16. What am I missing?
API pricing drops DRAMATICALLY in enterprise agreements. As with pretty much anything priced on volume/usage. Enterprise deals are negotiated ad-hoc, the listed pricing is simply a jumping off point for the final negotiated discount. If you’re going to give 20,000 employees Claude code you are not going to be spending $1B per year on Anthropic tokens as if you gave everyone an individual API key. Just as Anthropic is…
This isn't true at the moment, though. So far there hasn't been the negotiating power. What happens is you end up capping usage for employees at a fixed amount. I think eventually, prices will come down and there will be discounts, but for enterprise accounts at least of our size (Going to be interesting to determing the metrics we give to engineers for determining whether the spend on this is worth it. Measuring PRs, lines of code committed, commits fully generated by agentic workflows, etc.....