Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud” • Hacker News Board

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#121

Post by Cider9986 » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:23 AM UTC

wildzzz wrote: post #60

Cider9986 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monero or honestly any crypto. There's no chargebacks and it can be more private.

That's fine for some things but my grandma is not going to buy from an online store that only takes crypto. Crypto as a payment option works well for computer-related merchants or for privacy-focused merchants. Like it wouldn't be uncommon to rent a VPS with crypto but it would be strange for an online candy store to accept it.

> That's fine for some things but my grandma is not going to buy from an online store that only takes crypto.

Of course not, unless it becomes mainstream, crypto usage will always be by early adopters and technologists. I don't care if you accept cards as well, I just want to be able to pay privately with Monero.

You're right that for chargebacks specifically the only way to eliminate them would be 100% crypto, not the option of card and crypto together, which is significantly more likely. But there are other benefits for customers(privacy), which is why I use it.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#122

Post by bradley13 » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:24 AM UTC

danpalmer wrote: post #59

This is just fraud. "Friendly fraud" is accidental or with the correct intentions – such as the customer not recognising the charge and charging back.

This is the point. You could file criminal charges. You could win in civil court.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#123

Post by zuzululu » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:24 AM UTC

rtgfhyuj wrote: post #116

zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

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Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#124

Post by fencepost » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:25 AM UTC

I assume that this is basically just not worth pursuing for small-scale orders (e.g. $15ish for Ciglue), but for larger ones what are the reasonable approaches for scenarios that don't involve stolen card fraud?

Notably disputing a credit card charge is completely independent of whether someone owes the debt, the credit card is simply a convenient way for that payment to be handled. What's the point where other collection methods make sense? As an example, if you're consulting for someone and they pay you $x,xxx via card then charge it back, at least in most of the US I believe it's legal for you to do your own collection efforts and contact them repeatedly (this changes if you sell the debt and it's a third party attempting collections).

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#125

Post by hosteur » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:26 AM UTC

zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

Why do you not want to name them?

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#126

Post by RevEng » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:27 AM UTC

Suppafly wrote: post #50

You know enough about the buyer to sue them or report them to the FBI.

A lawsuit will cost you at least thousands of dollars if you can even serve the person. The FBI doesn't care about even thousands of dollars of fraud; they are busy chasing million dollar crime rings. Try reporting to your local police and see what they say - they will advise you it is not even worth your time to write out a report because it won't be investigated. Heck, my mom was defrauded out of $10k by a persistent group of people running a fake crypto investing company, and when she reported to the government body specifically responsible for investigating those cases, the nice man said, "Thanks for letting us know." They don't have time to investigate and prosecute minor fraud.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#127

Post by Cider9986 » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:28 AM UTC

zuzululu wrote: post #88

Cider9986 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accept crypto for those countries, it doesn't have chargebacks and helps those vulnerable to the financial system.

I dont follow. If regular finance to a country is that much distanced from global financial oversight and treaties where crypto (with awful spreads) becomes the norm that doesnt necessarily mean they are victims of international financial order but that regular financially modeling simply cannot manage their unique risk characteristics

Damn, I made a great reply and it never sent–that sucks.

I was more nuanced and specific, but I don't want to do it all again.

1. The fees are not awful idk what you mean, I pay between 0.1% and 1% fees on Monero transactions.

2. If the modelling can't manage their risk characteristics, they are by definition a victim of the financial system. I was more talking about people who have been debanked, though.

I have a Russian friend who can't pay for things online in fiat because of sanctions and the risk to his life from being on the free internet. So, he uses Monero and Tor and takes his OPSEC seriously. He is a victim of trad-fi, and Monero allows him to take his freedom back.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#128

Post by burnJS » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:29 AM UTC

I lose disputes all the time, no matter the evidence. I'm not happy with Stripe. The only thing keeping me from looking at alternatives is the low volume of fraud committed against my SaaS.

Do better Stripe. Be better Stripe. Or eventually we will find someone better. Think. Don't enshittify. Your support has already become covered in it by doing the needful.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#129

Post by ripberge » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:31 AM UTC

I dealt with millions of dollars in chargebacks with Stripe. We sold tickets, they're easy to re-sell and our customers were tourists visiting shows from all over the world.

Stripe Radar was not a good product. It would score large numbers of very suspect transactions at a risk level of 1 or 2 (out of 100). I don't have an ML background, but something about their methodology was just flawed. It behaved as if there was a wire loose in it. Unfortunately, I don't think they're very incentivized to care.

Re: Stripe is friendly to “friendly fraud”

#130

Post by HaZeust » Wed, May 27, 2026, 4:41 AM UTC

zuzululu wrote: post #28

My suggestion is to just ban specific regions or countries and you can cut 80% of this fraud. I'm not going to name those countries outright but you should never ever be launching globally until you have these safeguards in place. Once you are known to be vulnerable to a certain scheme, it quickly becomes known in that region/country. Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low…

>"Again and again I'm reminded why high trust societies remain high trust and why low trust societies rarely transform into high trust society."

Outside of South Korea, from enormous help from Pax Americana, has it ever happened?