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Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

politico.eu

171–180 of 246 posts

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#171
post #33
post #31

If it's such a vital piece of Dutch infrastructure, why is it in private hands at all?

DigiD itself is government-owned, but its infrastructure is managed by Solvinity (a private company). Not really different from the US gov running half its stack on AWS.

[deleted]

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#172
post #3

Finally! The entire country has been clamouring for this for weeks, and the government has been completely silent about it. A couple of weeks ago, the entire parliament (with only a single party dissenting) voted for a motion to end the contract with Solvinity, but the government extended it anyway, leaving blocking the takeover as the only option, and there wasn't a lot of confidence that the government would do tha…

> With the US law that the US government should be able to get access to any data held by a US company Er, what law is this, exactly?

CLOUD Act and FISA §702

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#173
post #116

The concerning thing for the EU should be that this valuable firm had no European capital trying to buy it. The Dutch have protected their sovereignty today while decreasing the incentive for the next entrepreneur to make something on European shores. Probably the best choice but doesn't change the structural problem.

Concerning for you, perhaps. I take the opposite lesson: this incentivizes and invites the exact kind of entrepreneurs you want to have in a country. You profit-driven Americans assume that all entrepreneurs build things to maximize profit at the expense of everything else. No, not everyone is driven by that, and many of the best company builders were not primarily profit driven (e.g. Steve Jobs believed in beauty an…

It is very true that if your company is a political vehicle, having the powers that be enforce that all companies must be political vehicles is quite good for you. America certainly has its version of this in its defense companies. I would not say those are the American companies that make me most proud to be American though.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#174
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just establishing that what one can pay is in fact not the only measure, disproving your universal assertion by counterexample. Regarding the specific case, they probably have the money. But they don't need it. Such is the beauty of regulatory power, vested in a democracy.

The common expression goes: "Put your money where your mouth is" I want to see if the Dutch will do that or not. To see the full beauty of regulatory power, you also have to be blind to the long term consequences of decisions. For example, are the best Dutch entrepreneurs government-aligned to the extent that they will create their startup or business in the Netherlands, knowing that they won't be able to sell shares…

This assumes that everyone is solely motivated by maximizing payout above all else, which is not only incredibly cynical, but also just plain empirically wrong.

(Again, by way of counterexample, I took a huge paycut to move from the US to Europe, but y'know, my quality of life is better, I live in a much safer, more pleasant place and I don't need to see people living in cardboard boxes from the window of my nice home anymore)

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#175
post #170
post #135

This is exactly why privacy by architecture matters more than privacy by policy. The Netherlands trusted a policy ("Solvinity can't access the data") but the architecture allowed it anyway. The only real solution is cryptographic sovereignty systems where even the vendor mathematically cannot access user data, regardless of what US law says. Not we promise we won't look but we literally cannot look. Building somethin…

> The only real solution is cryptographic sovereignty systems where even the vendor mathematically cannot access user data, regardless of what US law says. ...OR, we host our data in our own countries with companies incorporated in our countries. (Sovereign cloud)

This misses the point that parent was making. The conversation shouldn’t be “move your data to countries you can trust”. It should be “use protocols that don’t require trust in the first place”.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#176
post #167
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe better, but less useful. I don't carry my Identity Card at all, unless I cross the border within EU where it is used. All other functions I have in our country app. To which I can log in using physical card, but I have other options that are online.

In the Netherlands it is mandatory to carry your ID card or passport at all times.

Germany as well

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#177
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is water less important to the poor person dying of thirst than to the rich guy watering his lawn?

The question is rather: Why would a person complain about dying of thirst, but refuse to go to the river to drink, and also refuse to pay for a glass of water. That makes me believe he is dishonest when he's saying he is thirsty. Or are we pretending that the Dutch people don't have any money between them to make an offer on this company?

If a billionaire bought all the water and is now taking $10 a glass, would you happily pay, or should the government regulate that away?

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#178
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of people who are willing to work for the government and the pay is pretty decent. But their stack is often Microsoft based and their IT is located in Apeldoorn. Who in their right mind would want to travel all the way to Apeldoorn. A good example of internal development in the government is the police. They have internal development teams.

Apeldoorn? I don't know any government offices there. Most of it seems to concentrate in The Hague, with some agencies spread through the country.

The whole Belasting is in Apeldoorn....

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#179
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just establishing that what one can pay is in fact not the only measure, disproving your universal assertion by counterexample. Regarding the specific case, they probably have the money. But they don't need it. Such is the beauty of regulatory power, vested in a democracy.

The common expression goes: "Put your money where your mouth is" I want to see if the Dutch will do that or not. To see the full beauty of regulatory power, you also have to be blind to the long term consequences of decisions. For example, are the best Dutch entrepreneurs government-aligned to the extent that they will create their startup or business in the Netherlands, knowing that they won't be able to sell shares…

> The result is that European hi-tech entrepreneurs create their businesses in a friendlier environment

An environment that lets you take European contracts since American companies can't compete for them is very attractive for entrepreneurs, so there is no problem here as long as they are consistent with banning American companies owning European government infrastructure.

Re: Netherlands blocks US takeover of vital digital supplier

#180

From the article: > Kyndryl said in a statement it was "extremely disappointed" about the decision. "The politicization of this process has overshadowed the clear and important benefits this transaction would have brought to Solvinity's customers and Dutch citizens." Are these guys so tone-death to the point they even try to gaslight the world? They are trying to take over a nation's ID system. Who in their right min…

As per the Dutch language saying: "Trust comes on foot, but leaves on horseback." Trust breakdowns are costly, except to the vultures "winning" the negative-sum game. Might want to read about the fall of the Warsaw pact.

> As per the Dutch language saying: "Trust comes on foot, but leaves on horseback."

So it took your horse? Better stop trust from ever coming then.

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