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The real cost of owning a home

ericturner.dev

261–270 of 901 posts

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#261

Your rent payments now, may be quite different in a few months. If you rent an apartment in a desirable location, which is far easier than owning a house in a desirable location, then rent payments are huge. And comparable or worse than owning a house in farther out. Your luck with landlords can wary a lot, and your rent payments may increase substantially with little notice. The landlord may also sell the building w…

> You may also suddenly have unpleasant neighbors. That is true with a house as well, but the distance between you and them is closer in an apartment.

Not all, but a lot of the debate between renting and owning include something like this, but you can rent a home, and you can buy an apartment.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#262
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Septic is another ticking clock. When that goes, you're in for 5 digits. But for the length they last it is less than my city sewer bill. Though if my septic fails I'll connect to the city system was the quote I got to do that was about what a new septic costs.

>> Though if my septic fails I'll connect to the city system was the quote I got to do that was about what a new septic costs. But that's the quote just for the connection. Then you get to pay a sewer bill every month.

One more reason I'm sticking with my current system for as long as possible. Though if my neighbor pays to bring the pipe the rest of the way to my house on the way to theirs I'll re-evaluate.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#263

You come out ahead with home ownership if you buy the right-sized home and stay there. Homes almost always offer more space and utility for less than rent would, assuming the rental even allows you to do what you want to do with your home or at your home. Staying put reduces the time and money you spend on borrowing, closing and moving, but most importantly, it keeps you from lifestyle inflation that is the biggest f…

> Homes almost always offer more space and utility for less than rent would

1. you can rent a single family house so the space and utility are the same

2. if interest rates recently increased very rapidly, the owner can afford to charge rent much lower than the current mortgage would be because they are locked into a lower interest rate.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#264
The buy/rent decision is quite complex for many reasons, but two overlooked factors are:

1) When a bank loans you $1e6 to buy a house, they are effectively deputizing you to act as a money manager: they allow you to make an investment that will hopefully appreciate more quickly than the interest rate. There are many other investments that have this property (e.g. the stock market), but banks won't loan to you to invest in them!

2) A mortgage acts as a forced savings rate: you pay the bank every month, and when you're done after 30 years, you have a large asset. So a large mortgage is (for some people) a good psychological commitment mechanism that imposes financial discipline.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#265

Your rent payments now, may be quite different in a few months. If you rent an apartment in a desirable location, which is far easier than owning a house in a desirable location, then rent payments are huge. And comparable or worse than owning a house in farther out. Your luck with landlords can wary a lot, and your rent payments may increase substantially with little notice. The landlord may also sell the building w…

> You may also suddenly have unpleasant neighbors. That is true with a house as well, but the distance between you and them is closer in an apartment. Not all, but a lot of the debate between renting and owning include something like this, but you can rent a home, and you can buy an apartment.

very weird how so many people are using apartments vs single family homes as a variable in discussing renting vs buying

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#266

The cost of having to live under the boot of a landlord is immeasurable. The freedom of not having a landlord is priceless.

I have been renting 15 years and have never once even really thought about my landlord...

I pay them on the portal and if something needs fixing I put in a maintenance request and they get it fixed. That's all i've ever thought about with them.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#267

The benefit of owning a home is almost always psychological, not financial. If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. But the psychological benefits can be huge. You have much greater control over the place you spend most of your time. You can change it to your liking. You don't have to worry about rent increases or ow…

This!

As someone who moved 6 times in 8 years (admittedly, some of those were for work), and every time, I relied on moving things myself/with friends, I was just tired any more!

For the last move, I hired movers since I was already married by then and our stuff tripled (yes, mine was a very small portion).

The fact that I don't have to move for a while now gives me a lot of peace!

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#268
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Extremely predictable payments” - I don’t own a home, so I don’t know about this - I have heard mostly horror stories about HOA. Can they hike maintenance fees arbitrarily? Also, what about insurance? Last I read, at least in FL, insurance cost is out of control, is that still true?

Don’t buy a home in an HOA and avoid living in a place with extreme high risk of property destruction. Neither are requirements of owning a home. HOA complaints typically are about control not really cost, and the terms are disclosed before purchase so not unpredictable at all, you are allowed to see the full financials and can see the financial health of the organization before committing. Insurance costs are direct…

It really depends where you live. Around here every home built since ~1970 has an HOA. The cities have demanded them, because they can push some of the work like re-paving streets onto the HOA as part of the founding documents.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#269

The benefit of owning a home is almost always psychological, not financial. If you take the money you'd use for a down payment and mortgage and invest it instead (after paying rent) you end up in about the same place. But the psychological benefits can be huge. You have much greater control over the place you spend most of your time. You can change it to your liking. You don't have to worry about rent increases or ow…

Yeah this. But some additional flavor to emphasize the 'don't do it for financial reasons' aspect.

In the late 90's I, like a number of my married friends, 'owned' a house in the Bay Area. Dot coms were going crazy, the economy was insane, and people who got big equity payouts were buying places with their stock. At the height of all that, my Sun stock holdings were enough to pay off the remainder of my mortgage but I got the "opportunity cost" talk from my financial advisor about how tech stocks were returning 15 to 20% and more, so what I should really do, is refinance, and put my equity into tech stock! I didn't do that but at least two people I knew did. And when the crash came, the friends that had refinanced ended up selling their houses an moving out of the area, and I was left with the dread associated of being an "older" engineer when tech jobs were on the way out. But I still had a mortgage and kids to support. Had I paid the house off I would be in a position to take a job with much lower pay than my last job and still stay in my house (with just the tax,insurance,utilities and maintenance costs). The psychological cost of 'uncertainty' is especially burdensome on me (which, I suppose, is why I make a good operations person).

I told my wife that if I ever had a chance to pay off the mortgage again (prior to paying it off the old fashioned way of making payments for 30 years :-)) I would. In California, you are required by law to be able to make a payment larger than you requested payment and any excess goes toward the principal. So we started making bigger payments, and between that and some bonuses and stock recovery we managed to pay it off. I still got complaints from my financial advisor that she could get us a better return than that, but I didn't care. I wanted more certainty than that.

Now that story works because I knew that I wanted to stay in the Bay Area, there were jobs that I would be interested in (even if they didn't pay what I would prefer) and that was important to me. A relative who was more management in retail (started at Sears) found owning was a problem because it made relocation harder. As a result, even though they owned now and then, they lost money during the mortgage crisis (needed to move with their house underwater) and didn't get the advantage of just staying in one place.

My wife's parents simply rented out their place and moved to a new place and bought a new house there. They ended up collecting a few properties which were their retirement plan, being sold off over time to pay for expenses when they could no longer work. That was more 'investment like' in my mind. But it was also a lot of accounting work with property managers etc.

Buying a home works really well if you are married and you both have salaries (and initially no kids). The US tax system is set up to 'reward' that behavior with a better rate for married filing jointly and a mortgage deduction for owning a house. It cuts out a lot of uncertainty. But it also means moving is a bigger deal. In today's market, if you bought a house with an 9% then they feel a bit locked in.

Re: The real cost of owning a home

#270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neighbors of owned-properties: - care about the long-term effects of their actions - care about the plan of their surroundings - plan to stick around This is a HUGE part of the psychological benefit you refer to of buying. Notably this is equally applicable to any occupant-owned property (e.g. condos > apartments).

Yeah, but it's also one of the downsides. "Care about the plan of their surroundings" can just as easily turn into the HOA drama that many prefer to avoid.

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